By Will Sturgeon, 26 August 2004 19:15
NEWS The latest GCSE results show continued apathy among schools and students for IT-related subjects and do little to encourage the industry that last week's poor showing in technical A-Levels wasn't a blip, with fears growing about a skills gap and companies looking overseas for new talent.
The number of students taking A-Level computing has actually fallen year-on-year, with just 1.1 per cent of students taking the qualification this year compared to a little-better 1.4 per cent in 2003. In real terms that equates to almost 1,400 fewer students.
And the pattern doesn't look set to improve much with the publication today of GCSE figures which show interest in IT is still low in schools at the under-16 level. The qualification offered in information and communication technology (ICT) was taken by 1.7 per cent of GCSE students, marginally up on last year (1.6 per cent).
Despite the opportunities for well-paid employment and the availability of jobs for the right people with the right qualifications, this message still isn't getting through.
The number of students who took A-Level computing (8,488) this year is still overshadowed by subjects such as music (9,280), expressive arts/drama (17,831) and general studies (58,316) to name but three of arguably less-vocational relevance.
With the GCSE in ICT the balance of power is no more encouraging, with students favouring subjects such as drama, history, physical education and religious studies.
Rob Chapman, founder of IT training organisation The Training Camp, told silicon.com the government needs to more to raise the profile of IT and drill home the message with schools and students that IT is an important area of qualification.
"The government should be treating IT in the same way as it treats the 'three Rs'," said Chapman. "IT is now as fundamental to society as reading, writing and arithmetic."
Chapman believes that if schoolchildren aren't motivated by the challenge of a career in IT, then more should be made of the money available.
"It sounds shallow but students should probably be told about the earning potential of a career in IT," he said.
Worse still in the eyes of many is the gender divide evident in IT learning within the UK education system. Boys still outnumber girls by almost seven to one at the A-Level stage.
Chapman attributes this in part to the image crisis within IT, blaming the perception - "not the reality" he added hastily - of 'geekiness' for the fact the numbers of boys, but particularly girls, is still low.
Hetty Browne, an information management graduate in 1998 and now MD of interactive services provider NeoOne, told silicon.com that too many girls fall at the first hurdle.
"Generally girls aren't moved to take IT because it's simply not seen as 'cool' and because they're just not interested in technology in the way that boys are," she said. "For girls, other career paths seem naturally more interesting and exciting."
Browne said: "A lot more has to be done to improve the image of IT in society in general. In turn this will catch the attention of girls and boys at school. Once they understand that it's not all about binary codes, if statements and XML feeds and is more about creating and developing services for people and businesses, perhaps their perception will start to change."
Browne added: "IT is challenging and exciting. Anyone with the knowledge and a bit of motivation can begin to rival the biggest and the brightest in the industry. This is the image we should be portraying to society and more importantly to girls and boys at school."
Comments
There are 71 comments. Join the discussion
1. anonymous
Our kids are seeing software developers working their butts off - huge hours for menial wages - why burn out when Microsoft have stitched up the market place for business apps (enter Microsoft Business solutions) - it's a dead market. And web pages and business apps aren't really very exciting. The screen is a drudge.
2. Roger Huffadine
The previous comment is correct - if you put in the same number of hours in almost any other job - with the same qualifications requirements - you can earn more money. (Ed note. That simply isn't true is it. Wages for a great many graduate positions in IT are still on average higher than in many other areas.)
You also don't need to be continually learning 'new' techniques to be able to use the tools of your trade. The way that Microsoft keep changing the way that software works on their platforms is a huge problem.
The GOOD days are gone programing and IT are a drudge.
A lot of the government IT money should go into junior schools to teach typing.
3. Greta Smalley
It's not just whether kids want to take IT, it's whether they can take IT. My daughter's secondary school, like every other UK school, has been under pressure from the Government to introduce more vocational qualifications. So they have. They have replaced GCSE IT with a vocational qualification that is said to be equivalent to 2 GCSEs. Unfortunately the local sixth form college doesn't accept this qualification. So, although my daughter likes, and is good at, IT she has opted not to take it because to her at this stage the qualification is worthless.
4. anonymous
Makes a change from the 80's when I.T was up and coming with shows like whizz kids making I.T cool and computer game writers driving Ferrai's. Now it seems it's as interesting as insurance with programmers driving Fords.
I think you shouldn't over analyse this as skill trends come in waves. You never know shortage of good I.T staff may get me a payrise so I can buy a house.
5. Kevin Wilson
From the children I have spoken to about their ITC class its the teachers who don't understand the subject which leads to confusion for the children. Invest money in teachers and the subject will improve in popularity.
6. Dave Hunter
As a former IT contractor who has not done any work in IT since 9/11 I told my son who is coming up for his GCSEs next year to forget IT because of outsourcing to India and the like. What's the point in training for a career that is dying on its feet. He has seen at first hand what being in IT in the UK does for you - poverty and job security equal to that of snowball in a sauna so why bother! He is now looking at an engineering career with the RAF as I don't see the government outsourcing the armed forces just yet.
Sow the wind reap the whirlwind that's what we get for letting accountants rule industry, no thought for the country they live and work in, no thought about what happens when you outsource everything to the far east and there is no one left in the UK earning enough to by the products their company is producing.
If there is no career at the end of the training what's the point of the training?
7. anonymous
GCSE / A levels in computing are not really a good measure, as you will never get a job in IT without a univerity qualification and quite frankly taking A level maths or physics will help you more at uni when you are doing computing than you a level ever will. if the number of students taking computing at Uni goes down that it when we have to start to worry.
8. Martin Hepworth
Same issues at Uni, they don't want to know the underlying stuff, they want a 'business computing' degree, and alot of Comp Sci degrees don't cover the business side of things.
Kids aren't interested in the 'science' of it, compilers, O/S designs, RDBMS design, network implementations etc which the A-level seems to cover.
They want a course that covers pointy clicky software and how you create an ecommerce site, drives businesses and managment. ie a cross management/computing degree.
9. martin Hepworth
had the same issue with a-level computing at Uni in the 80's. Wasn't recognised as useful by the computing dept as didn't teach anything relavent, they preferred you do maths + other sciences at a-level..
10. Raith
Also, it's not true that geekiness has left the industry. A lot of non-geeks bandy about the latest buzzwords but there's little understanding behind it. Take Microsoft Office away from them and they are stuffed. All the proper developers I know have strong geek streaks - and need it to be able to keep up with the game. If you don't get off on IT then it's the wrong job for you.
In my spare time I do have a life - honest!
11. Steve Houghton
Sadly we are all entering the trap of thinking that IT is the be all and end all of life. It might not be 'cool' to be a doctor, but people still want to do that profession. It is not about perceived coolness or money or anything, just acknowledging that as humans we require a variety of skills not just IT. Obviously in the current climate IT skills are necessary but not the major requirement.
12. anonymous
When they see IT jobs being outsourced to India, Mexico, China etc, how can they view IT as a sound industry to provide a secure job? With these markets driving down salaries for the new starter you would have to be insane to choose that career path.
13. Mike Jenkinson
One of the reasons that IT does not have a high profile is that anybody with an IT background doesn't teach - there's more money to be had in business. Why teach IT?
Poor teachers, poor students! And there is no apparent will to take ageing IT people back into education.
14. Badg Champion
My son finished an HND in computing earlier this year and is still unemployed, despite avidly reading papers and cultivating aquaintances.
Why should anyone train in a field for which, judging by the job adverts etc, there is no demand.
15. Mike Siggins
Subject may be seen as dull even for IT fans, and in my experience is badly taught.
Further, what relevance do computing courses have? If it is being taught, it is probably oout of date.
16. anonymous
As an IT professional with over 30 years in the industry I have actively discouraged my bright 17 year old from following in my footsteps, why? A career full of working weekends, having to retrain continuously, rampant ageism and senior management who see IT as cost not an asset. Oh and having to work with, and often for, accountants.
17. anonymous
GCSE IT Coursework would've put me off.
My daughter's just done GCSE IT and the coursework content was sooooo tedious and repetitive. Her projects consisted of reams and reams of pointless documentation: 'reasons for choosing this app over that app' or 'this font over that font' and hundreds of annotated build-ups. It appears that size IS important in these courses. But it must be a real turn-off.
18. Frank smith
So we can't get 'em young and won't employ them over 35!!
We have got what we deserve, and with M$ actively killing all competition it will stay that way.
I'm of to build houses!! ( age 46)
19. anonymous
I graduated with a degree in computer science and have now been working in the industry for 4 years. I must say the pay is not what it should be and the demands made on IT staff are somtimes obscene. You very rarely recieve thanks and are often scorned at times. If it wasn't for my team mates I would have dumped IT a long time ago.
20. Brian Burkill
Why should they bother?
They go to sixth form, get their A levels, go to University, get their degree, and if they are lucky, land a job. And finish off with a huge debt to be paid off at the end of the degree.
IT workers are continually studying, working anti social hours, for what really is not a great reward. In fact, the rewards and benefits are crap, as employers take advantage of the situation and let their accountants run the company.
Take the other angle, and get an in demand skill. Get a modern apprenticeship, and become a bricklayer, plumber or electrician. You can earn FAR MORE nowadays in these skilled trades than you can in the 'highly skilled' area of IT. By the time they are 20, they will be qualified, have a job and be in demand. And NOT have a huge debt hanging around their necks. OK, no degree, but who cares.
I advised my son to go into IT through University, and his future looks bleak, despite having worked damned hard and getting a first class degree. How I wish I had advised him to get a 'manual' trade.
I guarantee that, if I had my time again, I would definitely NOT go into IT (but with hindsight, I know etc). I would have carried on with my Bricklaying and Electricians course and would be earning at least 50% more than I do now.
Job satisfaction?? What Job satisfaction?. It is really hard work sometimes just trying to get a user to press a key on the keyboard. And sometimes, it is just plain boring
A carpenter working for the local council divulged to me his salary, and I was flabbergasted to learn it was £15,000 higher than me, and I regarded myself as not badly paid.
All that work, all that studying, all that keeping up, for NOTHING. Nowadays, I am grateful just to have a job and earning a living. Certainly not getting rich, but earning a living all the same. IT is now the only thing I can do, and I am simply too old to retrain, but if I could, I would. Plumbers get paid a fortune.
IT is now no longer seen as a niche industry, with rich pickings. The teachers are behind the times and cannot keep up (why should they). The curriculum at university is out of date (but it would be, wouldnt it).
Ditch IT, let the outsourcers have it, and then, when it all goes wrong, who will the Government blame?? This country is slowly going to the dogs, with a government simply not interested in investment in its people.
Time to go back to core, in demand skills where you can earn a decent crust nowadays, and that is in the manual skills, which are now in decline.
21. Mark SPLINTER
History! Art! Kids today are crazy!! We don't need that nonsense! We need more kids learning how to use Microsoft! QUICK!!
Fact is, kids teach themselves IT at home by experimenting and discovering. It's like sex. They figure it out without the need of an exam board.
22. Allan Shriver
Ban overseas outsourcing and greatly raise teacher salaries only for English, Maths, Science, Engineering and Business Studies, but train them to do creative info-tainment teaching! And introduce a course on common sense instead of the fluffy stuff of 'media studies' or 'dance' etc.
23. Anon
Hey! Information Minister! WAKE UP!!!
24. anonymous
But what is IT?
Having read every comment submitted, the occupations and job titles of those in IT responding to this article covers a vast range of skills.
Perhaps the reason for "GCSE / A levels in computing are not really a good measure" (Anon.) is because the courses do not cover specific areas and only offer a brief insight, thereby not showing what an IT qualification can lead to.
Maybe IT would attract more interest if the exams were conducted along the lines of Science courses and broken down into modules (Science = Biology, Chemistry, Physics)? Perhaps IT could consist of separate syllabuses of Programming, Engineering and Communications?
My son was considered unsuitable to do IT at school, so he went onto Further Education and obtained GNVQ qualifications – including IT. He is now working in the reprographics industry – which over the past 10 years has become more and more IT-driven – and the IT qualification helped him get the job.
25. Allan McBain
My local state Primary school has an excellent IT suite and committed staff. I've been thinking about whether the kids could get a European Computer Driving Licence (using the software, not the nuts and bolts, I know) in Year 6 with the capabilities they demonstrate.
Unfortunately, not all schools are as well endowed with systems and staff, so when our children move up to Secondary school, they have to start back at the basics as some kids don't know where the "on" button is and the secondary school isn't allowed to stream kids by experience or ability. So the kids from our school can quite easily lose interest in IT at school.
Frankly, it is depressing.
26. Andrew Clark
UK companies are generally run by people who don't understand IT.
What is worse, they don’t realise that they are totally dependent on their IT systems for running their companies.
Take away the IT systems and the company simply doesn’t work any more.
The senior managers need to realise that you cannot revert to the quill pen.
It seems to me that it’s not just IT that suffers from this syndrome.
All skills (except those of the accountants and lawyers) are seen as too costly, hence the rise in outsourcing.
However, the risk in outsourcing IT systems is that they handle core business functions.
It makes about as much sense to outsource IT as outsourcing the finance department.
27. anonymous
Technology is not well paid relative to the ability and qualifications required. The fat cats are drawn from the ranks of marketing/sales (No qualifications at all required), accountants, or lawyers; All of these have skills as transferable as those in IT. Just look around: How many IT directors on the average board? - No place on the board, no chance of being CEO.
I'm an engineer, but if I was starting again, I'd go for accountancy or law!
28. anonymous
Kid's aren't really shunning IT they are just not taking qualifications in it. If you go around to any house you will be seeing kids using computers.
Out of of my friends and my brother who work in IT, I am the only one who has a recognised formal academic qualification in the subject. Even then it's not a first degree but a Masters Degree.
There is little point taking formal academic qualifications in plain computing when business, engineering or physical science subjects would do you in better stead with employees as most of the jobs around now tend to be on the specialist end due to the amount of outsourcing going on.
29. geebee
I read articles like this fairly often, and they all compare IT wages to some sort of general average (the population at large, or university graduates, etc...) I agree with the poster who pointed out that the accurate comparison is with Law, Medicine, Business, and other areas that offer better compensation and working conditions to the top students.
I live in the US, so the market for various professionals may be different from the UK. But I have seen reports showing that the math and physics majors score higher than other students on the LSAT (an exam that plays a major role in Law School admissions) These are precisely the students that tech companies are trying to hire. IT is competing with some very higly paid professions for the best minds, and let's face it, IT ain't winning.
It's so frustrating when people act like this is some big mystery. The kids who are shunning the IT are behaving very rationally in a free market.
30. Ian Jones
My son just got a Grade A in GCSE IT and is starting A-Level next week. He has grown up in a mixed windows, linux and unix household and I started teaching him some simple scripting and programming when he was 12. IT is very much in his environment and as he finds it both interesting and relatively easy, he wants to continue in his studies of it despite the fact that I have not long had two years out of work.
31. Steve Berry
Seems to me we're all missing the point here.
IT has been commoditized. MS, IBM et all have seen to that.
Look at what IBM & their 10+ company consortium did to counter MS & the VS.Net initiative - they employed a bunch of devs on Opensource Eclipse.
End result - potentially money makinmg dev projects will go to where the cheapest cost of labour is (largely irrespective of platform).
The way things are shaping up, it looks as if MS are in for one hell of a shady ride over the next 5 / 10 years. IBM haven't survived since before the 1900s for nothing you know.
Where does this leave us as individuals ?
Frankly, the individual (from a tech perspective) irrespective of how good they are is expendable and whether us techs like it or not, we're in the hands of business/bearocracy/accountants/lawyers etc.. where the political agenda is one of business survival for the Corporates where techs will be employed to serve Corp whims. Kinda' reminds me of Stalin and his political agenda.
Think you live in a free world ? Think again...
I'm thinking of moving up the careere ladder and becoming a cabbie.
32. anonymous
I'm a lawyer. I used to be a software engineer with a leading IT company.
Postgraduate qualifications are mandatory for this job - the old one needed none at all (although the majority of my colleagues had a degree of one sort or another). The pay is far lower - although that's in part because I work for a charity rather than a rapacious commercial law firm - but that only represents a small part of the legal profession.
33. Poverty programmer
Why should kids be interested in an industry that's become so abusive? (I'm in California and the IT industry is just as bad here.)
I had about 5 years experience in IT when my last contract ended on 2001.09.11, but I haven't been able to land any employment in IT in 3 years! I'm sure my nieces and nephews see me, a person with a 98%-ile IQ, whom they've mostly looked up to, with NO job, and avoid IT like the plague!
Despite having advanced skills with the database technology I use, technical recruiters usually tossed my resume in the garbage. I nevertheless continue to learn new skills. Now, however, those same recruiters say they can't consider me due to my gap in employment! Business just treats IT workers like livestock! Instead, we need to be treated like real people: recognize that it is our intelligence and talent, not just specific skills, that are our real value.
It looks like this article/site is intended for executives. Do you executives have your collective head up your ass? Do you think this can continue without consequences? Are you reading this? Hello? Hello?
34. Scott
We dont need more people in IT, we need more quality people in IT.
There is no point pushing people into IT, they need to have an interest and ability for it.
Bring back the geeks!
35. anonymous
Just stumbled onto this article and about gagged until I realised this was a UK site. I don't know how it is over there but here in the states I actively discourage the youth from going into IT. I grew up in the "beyond 2000" era where computers were going to be the best market to get into. I wish beyond 2000 could have predicted that it would be the best if your in India or Taiwan...
Over here you just about have to beat up your compition so they won't show up for the interview becuase the lack of jobs makes eveyone with an once of IT skills up to a masters degree apply for the same job.
Hope things are better over there...
36. anonymous
Kids are too smart to fall for this propaganda
I’ve been a professional software developer for over 20 years and I’ve spent the last five years telling kids that IT offers no future as a career.
As an adult, you need to understand the basics of how to use a computer and software. You also need to know how to use a telephone and drive a car. We don’t throw up our hands in panic, because no one wants A-levels in telephonic or automotive usage. A-levels in IT for most people in the future will be absurd overkill.
Twenty plus years ago I took a degree in Physics. That information has been worthless for years. Thanks to outdated professors, most of it was worthless even before I graduated. IT has a much shorter life-span than Physics. An A-level passed today won’t be worth the paper it was written on in two years at the outside.
Thank goodness that our kids are smarter than their parents, especially those who work in the media.
37. anonymous
Degree too difficult? I started my computer education in the 80's, the curriculum was changed on me three times at the university, at lot of non-essential coursework was added; physics, bio-science, mathematics, etc. to get my degree. Why would kids major in computers if you have to be part physicist, mathematician, especially if they were interested in business or other.
38. anonymous
It is truly ludicrous to chastise young people for shunning an IT career path when the contemporary trend is for U.S. IT professionals to be replaced with cheaper foreign outsourced labor. Can you expect young people to behave otherwise when short-sided U.S. managers treat our society with such complete contempt?
39. Daniel
Until I was laid off last year, I worked at a firm that was right next door to one of the best public universities here in the US. As my bus went right by the computer science building, many CS students would ride the same bus as I did on my way to work, and I overheard a lot of their conversations. Over the last few years, basically, I noticed a shift in how computer science was discussed.
It went from being something that they were proud of doing, to something that they were ashamed of and trying to get out of. (dual majors were discussed, transfering to other subject areas, etc.)
From what I could hear, the reason was money and jobs. The kids saw their classmates graduating and having trouble finding work in computer-related fields at what they considered to be a decent wage, considering their loan load and the effort expended, and they worried that the same thing would happen to them.
My wife is a CS graduate from a foreign country, and she tells me that on chat boards she sees many of her peers discussing returning to their country, especially the men.
The way they see it, why stay here and have trouble finding and keeping work, while things are booming back in their home country. :(
Many of them see the US's economy as past its prime and the US swiftly moving towards being a 'has been' nation because of our lack of a technology-friendly environment.
Mostly because to them, salaries and long-term prospects here have basically changed dramatically for the worse. In just the last two or three years.
Women seem a little more willing to stay here, she says, because they are less money-centered and they like the somewhat more relaxed lifestyle here more. (back in their home country, people are expected to work much, much more than here - to the point of not having a life at all, it seems. But they get rich, quickly, by local standards.)
But the number of women with CS backgrounds is much smaller.
A lot of these people are highly skilled graduates of top US schools.
We should expend more effort on keeping them here.
But that means higher IT salaries across the board.
It seems to me that a similar process is happening with the Europeans I know, although I have less first hand knowledge there. But the job market in some parts of Europe seems to at least be healthy or maybe even expanding while here it is contracting.
My theory is that companies are seeing unprecedented levels of productivity, but they are unwilling to share that windfall with the people who enabled them to achieve it.
40. anonymous
The kids are all right. Glad that kids are been sensible and are abandoning a moribund field like IT. Really, most IT work, including a lot of programming is insecure blue-collar level work. As a consequence, the work is being outsourced just as blue-collar factory work has been.
41. jono
when i was a kid i had a dragon 32 and later a spectrum (after dragon went under). they were new and exciting, and when you switched them on you had to learn a little basic even if it was just LOAD (J!) ""
you realised that there was a whole language to program in, so you wrote the classic:
10 PRINT "JON IS ACE"
20 GOTO 10
and then wanted to learn more... you were learning IT with a toy, and it was exciting and we knew it was the future. what fun it would be working with computers when we grew up!!!
it's all X-Box and PS2 now, which dont teach kids anything, and are much more exciting than pc's.
bring back the 80's!
42. anonymous
'A' level computing usually bears little relation to real world computing as the industry is too fast moving for the qualification process. It should perhaps be treated as a basic skill and a tool for learning other subjects (like learning to read)and those who find the IT enthralling can (hopefully) push the boundries at University via straight comuting or Maths or Physics etc. That of course depends on Universities having the vision and funds for research, sensible pay for computing/science professionals etc but that is another story.
43. anonymous
Its not like the OLD days
44. John Latchford
Lecturing in ICT in a FE college, have taught GCSE, A level & AVCE ICT over the last year after 23+ years in the IT industry. I agree with most of these comments, GCSE ICT coursework is deadly dull to teach (and worse to mark). Too often ICT though seemed to be the haunt of students who could not do anything else. Agree with comments about salaries, I took this job a year ago as I couldn't find a contract and am leaving this week, came in on top of scale (which I earned in 1984). Still have the ageism of the IT industry to look forward to!
45. Brian Fenton
After being involved in Electronics and Hardware Design for 26 years, I must say that I find software design stimulating and rewarding. Then again I am not working for a faceless Corporation where the Accountants are nailing costs down to the nearest penny, but for a bespoke software company. If you are working for a big Corporation and they are not valuing your services - then move on and do something more stimulating.
I have read a raft of negatives and criticism of the IT industry, with little positive feedback to encourage future IT Professionals. Not every company is moving it's IT infrastructure out to India or China, where things are not totally rosey. A lot of companies still need local support, with local knowlege - not 'canned' knowledge with little flexibility.
The IT Industry is in much better shape than the harware industry - by a long margin. So do something which Software Professionals do not like doing. Sell yourself as an IT Professional, support the BCS and generally raise the bar of the profession. Otherwise it can only diminish.
46. David Nofziger
From this article, I can only conclude that kids today are smarter than I was in my teen years.
In the U.S. computer industry, there is virtually no interest in hiring smart people who expect to be compensated well.
There is only interest in hiring the cheapest labor available.
47. anonymous
The kids are showing more savvy than the author of this article. There is massive unemployment among IT workers, mainly as a result of outsourcing to India.
(Ed note. That simply isn't true is it. There are still a large number of unfilled positions in the UK IT market but one issue is that people have the wrong skill sets due in part to a sluggish approach to retraining in this country. School is the easiest place to start a process of ammending this situation. It's easy to sit back an keep blaming 'India' - but there is a lot more the UK can do - starting at grass roots. Granted offshoring has accounted for some jobs, but while there is still a skills gap in the UK it is relevant to recommend students train and take advantage of available positions and relatively high wages.)
48. anonymous
Dear Ed,
Must take issue with you reprimanding us for blaming India. You suggest that there are many unfilled vacancies, and suggest that the part of the problem is due to "...a sluggish approach to training in this country".
Exactly, were back to cost again! We don't train people because it costs money, and we offshore because it saves money.
Sure there are some vacancies, but there's no skills or ability shortage. It's just that the job seekers out there don't match the "ideal candidate profile" i.e they're over 35 years old, might need a bit of retraining, and need a salary big enough to enable them to buy a house.
49. Mr Angry
Why bother, when so many IT companies treat their employees like Sh*t, by outsourcing them or reducing the staff so much it makes the job impossible.
We, the parents, being already in IT have no ambition in pushing our children into IT carreers where we are not appreciated.
50. anthony wilde
wow - so many comments - ive no idea if anyone will make it this far down!!!
I cant agree with most of the above!
My degree was relavent in 95 - I still draw on the experience now - I got into IT via electronics - I cant even remember how to calculate capacitance now... Ive had to relearn a dozen programming/scripting languages or more since then but all the things I have learned have had a place in my knowledge base.
Money is an issue - and yes the market has been down - but remember the government has not issued 10'000s of work visas for plumbers, carpenters, electricians to work here - activly undercutting UK wage earners!
IT, media, electronics, telco and business are all merging and we all have to learn how to move with the times. Just as 19th century doctors and engineers would not know how to operate todays processes/machinery.
51. Justin brooks
My 14 year old daughter is fascinated by IT (particularly games design) and considered an IT GCSE. However she found the the teaching was far inferior to that in the Australian school she attended for a year and felt she would get nothing from the course - she has already helped me build 2 machines. She will make another judgement at A level stage, but I am not hopeful.
52. Graham Wharton
I would give my kids lots of encouragement to take up IT as long as they are prepared to accept the fact that everytime belts are tightened in the corporate world, they have a good chance of being amongst the first people to get fired.
They should also be prepared for enforced retirement in their thirties!
IT managers should also be prepared to accept responsibility for the mess we are in. Q. who are the people that are only interested in recruiting very youthful IT staff? I have had agencies make comments like "I've managed to convince him to see you."
Thanks, aren't IT recruiters wonderful, being prepared to interview someone in their thirties, god help me when I hit forty!
53. Alex
I wouldn't encourage my children to take a degree in Coal mining, ship building or steel working because there are very few jobs left in the UK. IT is going the same way, however this time we can change the course of history.
Offshore is cheaper because companies aren't exposed to UK costs and taxation.
If the government gives me a corporation tax holiday for 10 years, staff educated at Oxford and Cambridge desperate to work for me at below NMW. Add the ability to hire and fire at will and staff that will work 12 hour shifts without complaint I can offer good service at 25 - 40% cost reductions.
So Gordon how about it? Instead of spending my tax money promoting offshorers and sending government work to the cheapest offshore bidder why not give it back and I'll keep the business in UK.
54. Theodore Odeluga
I'd encourage the 14 year old daughter of Justin Brooks.
While the rest of IT seems to be going down the toilet, one area in IT is booming -the games industry.
If we want more kids to get into IT, this is one area that could encourage many more youngsters to become involved.
The beauty of the computer game industry is that even though it may face future economic problems, it will survive on the basis that its driven by entertainment (like the US film industry -which it outgrosses).
People will always want entertainment.
The other advantage is that skills developed in it are transferable to other areas of computing.
So get the message kids -don't just play games -make them as well.
55. Robert Privett
IT industry has inflicted this wound itself by turning down people over fourty, children in their formative years see one parent or both tossed on the scrap heap by the IT industry and simply say "well thats not for me" and they stay clear.
56. Peter Anders
Kids know two things that I guess you guys that wrote this don't:
1) Employers are not interested in GCSE or A-levels in IT for IT positions. Maths or physics exams would surely have more kudos. Business studies is probably more useful.
2) The "image problem" that is turning off young people is perhaps not its geekiness, it's the image of frequent redunanacy and insecurity. This image is pretty much accurate.
I would not advise young people to go into IT, and even if they did want to I would advise them not to take GCSE's or A-levels in the subject.
57. anonymous
The problem lies in the fact that a GCSE/A level are not going to lead into an IT career. These are seen as a stepping stone to a degree. In this day and age an IT degree is no guarantee to a job either. I am involved in an IT training company which specialises in Microsoft accreditation and we have a fantastic employment record with qualified students. We have on our books at the moment university students with degrees, PHD’s, HND’s. Some of these of been graduated for over 12 months and had no joy in the job market, until they put the Microsoft qualification on their CV’s.
IT is still a very buoyant industry if you have the qualification that employers are looking for.!!!! Vendor specific.
58. anonymous
One of your headlines today is that firms will be laying off huge tracts of their IT workforce by 2008.
Combined with the fact that the UK has little innovation compared to the US and that huge areas are going abroad, bright youngsters should stick to law or other stable occupations; all most of them need to be is IT literate and you do not need an 'A' level or a diploma or a degree to be IT literate
59. Carlos Meneses
Our kids are smart and they know and feel about the future. Please do not let them loose their faith and hope for a better future. for instance, United States has become already in a lower-level job market, it is not an attractive country for talent anymore. However other countries (Canada, Germany, China, Switzerland, etc) concerned about keeping their technological edge, have taken already the necessary steps to attract and keep the IT talent.
Outsourcing, offshoring, you name it; it is just a consecuence of corporate greed and ignorance. What would happen if all those nations that now offer high tech services for a dime were super-power countries? Wouldn't they charge the premiums that usually we do charge as super-powerful countries?
Thank you for your time reading my comments and like I said before, please do not allow our kids to loose hope, they need enthusiasm, new horizons, new ideas, new oceans.
60. Rebecca Stovall
The reason kids are interested in I.T. career choice is because of the current economy stats on this declining available job in the U.S. Perhaps parents, not specifically girls, are encouraging their children to pursue medical over I.T. or another career of choice. This is simply because they would like to see their children establish a sense of secure career path in the U.S. In conclusion, if we as parents do not set standards to produce more activity for job growth in the U.S. in the I.T. area for our own human development future, then we alone are setting the downfall for the United States in Technology.
61. anonymous
After they ask you to design AND build your replacement, who Ya' gonna cry to then? We worker Bees' (in ALL countries) had beter get it through our THICK heads that when Corporations play multi-national "games" that REALLY end up pitting one group of workers against another, one taxing local against another, WE ALL END UP LOSERS!
Communities the taxe base needed, workers= wage stability and a FUTURE, and the only winners are THE MIDDLEMEN...who shuffle "capital" from "market to market" with an ease that working people can never match.
Maybe its' time to OUTSOURCE THEM-by pass them in all areas of OUR lives.
The "revolution" is OVER, not a bullet was fired, but the bottom 80% have been forwarned if not pink slipped.
SO HOW YA' GONNA VOTE THIS YEAR? (in the US)
62. John
Teenagers and IT:
I spoke to a friend the other day that teaches IT in high school here in the UK. She said
“Of course pupils are not interested in learning IT at school. They already know IT. They all have computers at home and they are IT literate. It ‘s not like 10 or 15 years ago that computers were something special.”
For me there is no real problem with today’s youngsters and IT. They will eventually choose to do a career in IT, if this interests them and proves to be beneficial for their long-term prosperity.
Outsourcing to developing countries:
As for the threat for IT professionals from the outsourcing of projects to India, China etc I agree. Such a threat is present. But hey, this is the real world and we have to live with it.
I would be happy to see policies being developed that will help our ageing IT work force to re-train to cutting edge technologies with minimum cost, as well as giving incentives or even forcing employers to change this narrow minded attitude of not easily hiring over 35s. Mature IT professionals offer a mix of industry and life experience to employers that make them more reliable and useful than younger candidates.
63. Jack
There are other reasons to shun IT. Kids have seen parents made redundant as their jobs are offshored to India and other countries. They have seen their parents fail to regain employment due to the rampant age-discrimination in the IT industry. They have seen the government hand out visas and work-permits like confetti,to foreign nationals who come and undercut local wages.
They have seen, and they do not like what they have seen.
64. anonymous
With regards to your article regarding IT takeup of school children, many students coming out of Uni with an IT degree over the last 4 years have been faced with a poor IT market following the dot com crash and more recently outsourcing of thousands of jobs to foreign workers. The experience of these individuals and articles in the newspapers has has had this effect. I'm in IT and wouldn't recommend it to anyone. The government should do more to restrict employment of foreign workers before the chance has been given to home grown talent. In most cases, companies go straight to overseas outsourcing without following the UK route first. This is obviously due to cost factors. If this isn't tackled, we will continue to see numbers of those going into IT fall.
65. Tony Rundle
I have seen IT people change from being regarded as near geniuses worthy of very high salaries to overpaid clerks. The work has changed from pioneering to relatively mundane. The Government has almost killed off the self-employed contracting business and the large companies are all trying to reduce costs by cutting back salaries and off-shoring. up until a few years ago I would have recommended a career in IT to anyone. But two years ago I sadly advised my son to look elsewhere - he will have more long term prosects in sales, accounting or one of the other professions.
66. Peter Stearn
IT is like reading and writing, a skill we will need more and more in business but not something to shout about in its own right. Consequently students are sensible to obtain qualifications in the standard disciplines such as law, accountancy, medicine, banking etc... All these professions will no doubt require IT knowledge but not necessarily a formal qualification such as a degree in IT. A lawyer with Microsoft Windows accreditation is hardly going to win more clients than say a lawyer specialising in family law. Ideally, young people would be well advised to avoid computers altogether and save themselves from a life wasted in front of a screen.
67. Derek Marsh
ICT it not "cool" because it is over- sold and then under-resourced in school. "Technology" sounds great; and then they are taught english or geography in front of a computer. There is only time to learn to use a few programs. "Interesting Communication (& presentation) Tools" By the time they get the chance to go deeper into anything like progamming later on, the magic has gone. Just like calling woodwork and metalwork "Craft Design and Technology", it ends up giving the kids a deflated idea of the academic and skills needed; and the job satisfaction. Its a case of "an engineer? So you drive a train then?" all over again.
68. anonymous
The problem with this entire article is that it looks at A-Level Computing. This is not a good measure of people not entering IT. The true measure would be to see how many students enter IT Courses at University. The reason why students dont want to study Computing at A-Level is that the coursework is either extremely boring or uses a not commercially used language like Pascal. (Nothing against Pascal but most employers want either a C Variant (C,C++,C#) or Java) Perhaps the entire structure of the A-Level needs to be modified. These people who want to do A-Level Computing are more than aware what Industry wants perhaps the government should catch up with the students and industry that it is trying to help.
69. KHJ MBA CITP
No parent could possibly recommend a career where there is a current skills glut and knowing that industry ignores this through allergy to training. The resulting 10 year career is not justified by wages - especially when accountancy uses the same aptitudes, is less demanding and can be practised well beyond one's thirties. Furthermore, it is still the norm that the CIO is either an accountant or reports to one.
All the above is, of course, ridiculous and in dire need of change - but the change ain't happening yet.
Kids - don't touch I.T. your skills will have the same shelf life as a premiership footballer but at 1% the pay.
70. Richard McAdam
I have been a network engineer, web and Windows programmer for 19 years. I work till 12 at night many nights and start work at 9 in the morning. There is plenty of work but people do not want to pay. A career in IT is challenging and can be a lot of fun but make no mistake, you have to work your butt off obsessively on an ongoing basis. Few people have the desire to sacrifice a normal life to their career and this is exactly what you have to do.
71. anonymous
If you graduate in IT, your competition is people in India, who will undercut you. Most IT jobs will go to India, where labour is 1/10th of the cost.