By Andy McCue, 21 December 2004 12:20
NEWS Opposition to the government's ID card scheme was ruthlessly swept aside in the first crucial vote in the House of Commons last night, with MPs voting almost four-to-one in favour of the controversial Bill.
Backbench MPs from all parties had threatened to try and derail the government's controversial ID card plans at the first reading of the Bill in the House of Commons.
New Home Secretary Charles Clarke continued the hard line of his predecessor David Blunkett and dismissed the "Big Brother" claims of opponents of the scheme.
But the revolt failed to materialise and in the vote late last night MPs voted 385 in favour with just 93 voting against the ID card Bill. It will now progress to a second more detailed debate and vote before finally being put before the House of Lords.
The strongest opposition came from the Liberal Democrats.
The cost of the ID card scheme has been put at £415m-a-year to run, not including set-up costs currently estimated at £186m and the cost of the biometric readers that will need to be deployed nationwide to validate the ID cards.
Comments
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1. anonymous
We are screwed now. Thanks Michael Howard, I had thought better of you.
£5Bn to be flushed down the bog.
We need enforcement of current laws, not new laws. Don't you people get it yet!!!
2. Rob
Everyday I am shocked further, by not just the labour government, but by all the major political parties.
I think it is time for a new political group to step into the arena!
3. Warren Swaine
£5bn down the bog... it's going to be more than that. If I'm forced to get one the first thing that will happen is the smart card chip will get 240v through it. Let's see how much repairing "faulty" chip-readers will add to the bill!
4. Richard Davies
they really don't have a clue and it scares me. Someone will crack this database a wreak havoc just to prove a point...then it will be too late.
At what point did the public have a say? Democracy...what democarcy?
5. Richard
Before even more money is wasted, I hope that this crazy ID scheme goes the way of the "Australia Card" - also proposed by a Labor government, in the 1980s.
The UK Government's ID card scheme can meet none of its stated aims, will be hugely expensive and will greatly damage our liberty.
All this just to grab some cheap headlines with the appearance of "being tough."
6. Karen Challinor
Petition your MP with your opposition
http://www.locata.co.uk/commons will tell you which one is your MP and then send them an email
If enough people do it they have to listen
7. anonymous
Why do they need face measurements?...
answer so they can identify you on any of the 1000s of CCTV cameras in this country. Cool won't be able to go anywhere without someone knowing.
Complete profiles can be made once you start cross referencing databases easily.... All reasons why this is the end of personal freedom and the MPs just don't get it..
8. anonymous
Whats even more scary is that the dumb politicians think the cards are secure. How long will it take 'organised crime' to get hold of a card writer? How long will officialdom go on insisting that there is no ID card fraud in the way banks insisted ATM cards were secure?
9. Ken Hall
It'll be much more than 5 billion pounds, and that's to save a few hundred million pounds? what kind of incompetent idiot follows that?
Anyway, as for who to vote for? My advice to the public would be as follows:
We should vote for anybody but the top three parties in the General election.
Find a local independent candidate and give them your backing, A local independent will be far more likely
to represent you and your constituency in parliament than represent a political party in your constituency.
They also do not have to follow the whip and support policies that they would normally consider wrong,
immoral or illegal. Or you could find another minor party that supports your views.
If you are inclined to be a non voter, remember that there are more of us, than there are voters. That gives you as a non voter an ENORMOUS amount of power. if you chose to do so, YOU CAN BOOT THE LIARS FROM OFFICE. but you have to vote.
Because most people in the UK know that Labour and Conservative parties are now both corrupt, lying, arrogant parties with fascist tendencies. Most people will not willingly vote. Many people will dislike both parties, and only vote for the lesser of the two
evils.
To those still inclined to vote for either Conservative or Labour. If you vote for the lesser of two evils, YOU STILL GET ELECTED EVIL!
Vote FOR somebody, not Against somebody else.
Pay attention, here's the Maths:
Polling suggests the following turnout in elections, (roughly)
1. Tories 32%
2. Labour 35%
3. Lib Dem 21%
3. Other 12%
(possible hung parliament)
Missing from that list is, most importantly, NON VOTERS.
Add those to the list and you get
1. Tories 14%
2. Labour 15%
3. Lib-Dem 13%
4. others 12%
5. Non voters 46%
See no such thing as mainstream support for a party anymore. At the next general election we could have a
peacefull and democratic revolution. A little revolution every now and again is a good thing. it may actually put the labour party back in the hands of
those who deserve it.
Non voters have the balance of power, there are enough non-voters now to completely overthrow the entire
system, if they schose to do so. We could have a historic result in the general election. The numbers
prove it.
These figures are roughly based on people that willingly support the parties mentioned. I do not include those that hate labour, but will vote labour only because they hate the tories even more and vice versa.
Without an alternative, people will vote for a bad party.
There are those that say,
But there will either be a tory or labour victory in the election, so I should vote for which one of these I would prefer.
NO!!!! That is manipulating you into supporting something you don't like. DO NOT FALL FOR IT! Why should you be manipulated into supporting something
you oppose? TORIES AND LABOUR HAVE LOST OUR TRUST.
NEITHER DESERVE OUR VOTE ANYMORE!
Vote for who or what you would like to win, not against who you like least.
But labour/tory must be better than tory/labour
No it's not, you know they both suck, don't feel manipulated that you ought to vote for one of them in case the other will win. That's like saying I should support Mussolini because Hitler is even worse.
THEY BOTH SUCK! And the Lib dems are even worse. Their total sell out to Europe renders their party a traitor
party in my view and their other policies are irrelevant. If they were in Power, their policies will be set by the European commission, not by the British, or Lib Dem Party, or their supporters.
Don't get me wrong, Although I supported Kennedy's views on Iraq and ID cards, I feel he hasn't gone far
enough and he should be pushing for Bliars impeachment with all his might.
The Lib dems support a policy which will remove their ability to create their own policies in future.
So that leaves minor parties, of which there will be many. So we non voters can have
10. Ken Hall
These ID cards are going to end up costing 9-12 Billion pounds, based on past experience. Both main parties now support it and that is to save how much? a few hundred million? This is way beyond idiotic.
So who to vote for?
The numbers speak for themselves. current polling suggests that :
Tories: 14%
Labour: 15%
Lib dem: 11%
Others: 12%
Non voters: 48%
(roughly)
The polling organisations only ever claim figures for those intending to vote, which scews the figures.
Every party is a fringe party now. Vote for someone else. A local independent would do more for your constituency, than someone from a 'main' party.
11. Ken Hall
These ID cards are going to end up costing 9-12 Billion pounds, based on past experience. Both main parties now support it and that is to save how much? a few hundred million? This is way beyond idiotic.
So who to vote for?
The numbers speak for themselves. current polling suggests that :
Tories: 14%
Labour: 15%
Lib dem: 11%
Others: 12%
Non voters: 48%
(roughly)
The polling organisations only ever claim figures for those intending to vote, which scews the figures.
Every party is a fringe party now. Vote for someone else. A local independent would do more for your constituency, than someone from a 'main' party.
12. Ken Hall
Hang on...
GW Bush stated at his press conference that the war in Iraq is "a vital mission for peace." and Tony Blair said that "ID cards are guarantees of freedom."
War is peace
Slavery is freedom
Where have I heard that kind of doublespeak before?
13. Chris Tolmie
Lock me up now! The Civil Contingencies Bill, ID cards and the Licencing Act have finally created a police state in the UK - not what I felt would happen when living through the 80s and 90s. Since I will not be forced into having an ID card (is this a free country?) and will probably need one to pay the fine - I guess I am stuck...
14. scared
Here is the prediction:
1 - they introduce ID cards
2 - we discover that the ID cards can be copied by organised crime groups.
3 - so to combat this they insert a microchip just under the skin.
4 - we discover that they can copy the microchip
5 - they link the chip to your DNA, so that if the chip is not compatable with your DNA you get some nasty side effects
6 - they are in total control.
15. Sempai
Will the new ID cards have the user's marital status - in Braille - on the front?
16. Ken
the Government plans, as proposed for the initial phase of the introduction of ID cards, state that the cards will contain over 50 peices of information about you.
A list is here:
http://no2id.co.uk/IDSchemes/faq.php#7
With the Home Secretary now admitting that he wants the dictatorial power to be able to indefinately detain anyone he likes without charge or trial, place them under house arrest and limit their access to communications, we see the direction the British Government are going with this.
The language they use to support totaltarian policies is identical to the language used by the third Reich after the Reichstag fire.
All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.
www.votecon.com
Ken.
17. Guy Herbert
To add to Ken's comment... That's 50 *categories* of information not fifty pieces. Thus not just your address, but everywhere you have ever lived.
18. Patrick de Selys Longchamps
Humanity is chosing this absolutely CRAZY path. Controle of who we have been to know better who we are now…less and less, more and more controlable until we find ourselves in a world of nobodies controlling other nobodies to secure something which will no longer be worth securing!
19. anonymous
Get what?
So someone is watching your every move. Who gives a hoot?
Get yourself a card.
Show anyone who maybe vaguely interested in your existence that you are a bonified person with no ill intent toward your fellow humans and get on with your life.
There's a world out there to be explored. Go do it. You're only here for a short while so why waste your life on worrying about the misdemeanours of id cards.
The sooner the better in my opinion.
20. Peter Stearn
More money for IT companies. Should be a bill against rip-off IT schemes. What did we do before all this technology. The NHS IT scheme is another scam. We need doctors and nurses not broadband and electronic bookings. Enforcing the existing laws requires people not machines but this doesn't make money for the big consultancies. The UK citizen is being taxed to death.