By Sylvia Carr, 1 November 2005 11:15
NEWS
Recruiters are largely to blame for perpetrating ageism in the IT industry, according to a recent poll of silicon.com readers.
Readers voted for recruiters 2-to-1 over employers as the party responsible for ageism, with 65 per cent of respondents pointing the finger in their direction.
Meanwhile fewer than 1.5 per cent of the 320 respondents said ageism is the applicant's fault.
The issue has resurfaced following new research which revealed three out of five IT workers has suffered because of their age and half of IT workers suffered age discrimination when applying for jobs.
Last year the government kickstarted its ongoing 'Age Positive' campaign against ageism in the workplace by handing out awards to anti-ageist employers and to workers who had overcome age discrimination.
But the issue still hits a chord with silicon.com readers, who gave a big response to the research. They said older IT workers have a lot to offer businesses and blamed short-sighted recruiters and inexperienced managers for failing to hire and promote them.
Comments
There are 22 comments. Join the discussion
1. Ned Ludd
This is similar to my experience of sexism - an employer will never say they don't want women, but recruiters have quite often told me that I don't stand a chance with a certain employer because they 'never hire women'.
Of course an employer which refused to interview or appoint women could be held to account 7under anti-discrimination legislation. I think quite a few employers use recruiters as a means of discriminating without being seen to do so. After all, if they never get any CVs from women or over 35's,, they can't appoint any, can they?
2. anonymous
Recruiters are the IT equivalent of '2nd car salesman/estate agent'.
They want to make easy money don't care about the needs of their customers. By customers I mean the IT person!
Companies should seriously consider other options such as placing job ads themselves, there are many specialist IT job sites employers.
3. Toby Shaw
As a recruiter myself I find this rather daft. The perception is clearly that the recruiter has a problem with the age of candidates, but this is rarely the case...
A recruiter only recruits the people fitting the criteria laid down by their client, the employer. If a recruiter sends candidates who do not fit the criteria, they will not be paid.
In conclusion, any age discrimination is down to the employers, although you do sometimes get some short-sighted recruiters...
4. anonymous too
I have to agree with Toby. Recruiters really don't give a monkey's who they put forward as long as it matches the search parameters.
The primary person at fault is the hiring manager\ company. And their prime reason for going with younger people is usually because they can pay them less.
5. Mentor for common sense
What gov't numb-nuts agreed to spend taxpayers money on awards for companies for 'positive discrimination'?! Awards mean diddley-squat to most companies; what they DO understand is swingeing penalties for ageism (by employers and recruiters)!
What we need is a Minister of Common Sense in this gov't which would be a non-political posting!
The problem is that gov't and ministers (like solicitors) are not incentivised to get things right (they still get paid and keep their jobs even if they screw up big time).
6. The Old One
During a recent spell of unemployment, no agency would even respond to me until I shortened my cv and reduced my age to under 40. Then, suddenly, I was worth interviewing.
I found my current job by networking. Agencies are ageist, and no amount of rationalisation can cover it up.
7. Colin Campbell
Recruitmentment consultance are in my opinion generally more slimey than a well buttered ice rink.
Recruitment consultants are interested in finding clients that fit a customers profile, however, they are far to reckless and idle to put forward clients who exceed a clients specification.
8. Chris Walker
I think that Toby Shaw does not live in the real world. In all my years (yes I am old) I have yet to find a recruitment agency that sends only applications that meet the employer's specification. Usually in excess of 50% of them can be discarded on these grounds.
Of course, the survey is wrong, the applicants are entirely to blame for being "old"!
9. anonymous
I simply couldn't agree more. At a spritely 40 years of age and 16 years experience in IT, using the recruitment agencies for job hunting has proven to be a bitter experience...
10. Charles Smith
Fascinating to see Recruiters diving for cover on ageism. Toby's agency must be an exception if it is genuinely non ageist.
I've done analyses of the situation. If you are over 45 and put your age or date of birth on a CV you are far less likely to get a response. I've been through telephone conversations with recruitment agencies that suddenly die when the age is mentioned.
Do agencies refuse to take assignments where the company has ageist requirements? "Hands up does who don't." Hmmm can't see too many hands.
The sooner that age discrimination is banned by law the better. Part of the penalty should forfeiture of the recruitment consultancy's licence to operate. The employers should be fined the equivalent of 18 month's salary of the role for which they practiced age discrimination, with additional compensation to the person who losts out.
11. Malcolm Wilson
Toby Shaw's comments are a classic cop-out statement. If I buy a DVD player from a retailer and it doesn't work I take it back to the retailer in the first instance, not the manufacturer. In this case the intermediary(retailer) is taking responsibility for the product and this principle should also apply where recruitment agencies are concerned, even on a one-off, bespoke basis.
If we are to put our employment prospects in the hands of recruitment intermediaries then they have a moral duty to remind their clients(employers) that ageism(along with sexism and homophobia) is unacceptable. An employer issuing dodgy job specs is as culpable as the previously-mentioned manufacturer knowingly marketing substandard DVDs. I don't begrudge the middlemen trying to make a living, but they should try to look a less like they are endorsing or overlooking prejudice just to maximise their fee.
If the recruitment agencies are upset at getting criticism it's because they are representing their clients' bad attitudes.
12. Tony Sygrove
We are all aware that there is age discrimination in the IT industry, I have been out of work now for over 7 months. I keep hearing from recruiters saying what a great C.V. I have but I am not getting any interviews. I believe that this problem is great than just ageism, it is also a case of managers being afraid of the skills, knowledge and experience that the older person can bring, I have experienced this problem myself infact one manager even told me that he felt threatened by me. What nonsense all we older people want is a job. If there are managers who think this way then maybe they should reconsider their employment, or better still embrace the knowledge of their teams and make it work for them and the team. The other issue that springs to mind is the one where employers will not take on older staff as they are looking for longevity in the post. In my experience it is the younger people who move on every two, three or four years as they feel the need to increase their knowledge. I have six years to the official retirement age and I would guarantee those six years with an employer if the company culture and ethos was right.
We have had the poll now can something be done about the problem...please...
13. Ian Matthews
Ageism can destroy.
The theory that everyone gets promoted to their level of incompetence means that many employer interviewers are to some degree incompetent in that role or feel they are. Fear of making mistakes encourages use of recruitment outsourcing and bureaucratic process that enables regular production of copious reports justifying whatever results are achieved, good or bad. Employing people with less experience means greater and more unquestioning support of dubious process, less threat and can be justified by lower cost. Sadly success is less a matter of creating results and more in creating feelings of security. This will ultimately destroy a company but then there will be excellent explanations of what happened to comfort the owners.
14. calvin t. chambers
I also believe agism is the blame for me not getting a job in the IT industry. I went back to school in 2000 at the age of 40 to get my bachelors degree in IT/networks and telecommunications. Then I received my masters in management in november 04. I have been looking for a job in the field now for 5 years and no one will even give me an interview. I have applied for help desk support and any entry level position and still no responses. I don't know what to do.
signed
Hopeless
15. anonymous
I was unemployed for 2 years and throughout that period I kept my CV up to date with my age and the dates that I worked for various companies, it was not untill I removed my age dob and the dates that I worked for different companies that the offers started to come in. More than once I was asked how old I was after being told "you more than meet the requirements for this job" and then the usual responce was "Oh! we will get back to you" and the end of the phone call. I have got a job in IT I work for a large carrier/isp and am enjoying every moment of it, Oh my age did I forget to mention it ? I am 60 and I have been in my current job since the begining of this year.
16. john brown
I think a recruiter does not discriminate on age. However, probably discriminate candidates on their general weak technical knowledge base. This results
in suitable candidates not being sent to the client.
Like all industries there are good guys and useless guys. I mean I work with people who dont do test driven development and wonder why nothing works when the do big bang integration.
17. John Smith
Recruiters are the IT equivalent of '2nd car salesman/estate agent'.
They want to make easy money don't care about the needs of their customers. By customers I mean the IT person!
Companies should seriously consider other options such as placing job ads themselves, there are many specialist IT job sites employers.
This above statement is terrible. So are IT consultants who provide bad advice , do not keep up with current trends e.g agil methods, unit testing, scripting , meta and domian languages and do not take responsibilty for their actions or mess . I mean IT consultants dont make easy money do they.
18. Ian Illy
I wish! This is the real problem though. The entry barrier to be in recruitment is non-existant. There is no need to be qualified as anything yet hese people call themselves 'recruitment consultants'.
19. John Ascough
I can't say I've met many recruiters who aren't ageist. One chap I was at college with scraped his way through, became a recruiter and was self-admittedly good at what he did because he was extremely greedy and didn't care how he got the money. In fact, his stock phrase is '...Show me the money!' The problem for those being recruited is the separation of cultures - middlemen interested in margins and siphoning money out of the industry vs dedicated and professional with more than a degree of idealistic spirit.
One last comment: I once sat in the office of a recruiter running out of Basingstoke when the bell rang. Yes, someone had been placed and I could sware everybody started dribbling involuntarily.
20. Toby Shaw
Thanks for your comments Chris - I can assure you I live in the real world and have done for well over 30 years now.
My clients do not discard 50% of the CVs I send them - In fact I have nearly a 100% ratio of CV sent to interview. I guess this blows your theory somewhat? I listen to what my client needs and then fulfil that requirement, that's why they keep using me and my company, Ascend.
21. Toby Shaw
In response to Malcolm Wilson's remarks:
Unfortunately the analogy of a DVD player is not particularly sound - It is a product, a piece of machinery, whilst employees are people. People have minds and can make choices. These choices can be reversed at any time and often are. I'm sure you've changed your mind at some points in life?
Is it fair to blame someone else if you change your mind?
I love being involved in recruitment and finding the right person to fill a client's needs, but I cannot be held responsible for the actions of others throughout the recruiting process. Can I?
22. Toby Shaw
One final comment on this (now I've read through everything): In the last week I have interviewed 5 candidates in their forties and fifties, I also have more lined up.
I employ a Recruitment Consultant in their fifties - She was also in her fifties when I employed her 3 years ago...
I have also signed up to the REC Diversity Charter.