By Andy McCue, 14 March 2006 12:10
NEWS
MPs have again voted in favour of compulsory ID cards by forcing passport applicants to register their personal and biometric details on the vast national ID database.
The government last night successfully overturned an amendment to the ID card bill made by peers in the House of Lords last week that would make it optional for people applying for a passport or other "designated document" to register for an ID card.
The peers' objection is that the government's election manifesto promised ID cards would be voluntary initially and that by linking them to passports - held by 85 per cent of the population - this would effectively make it "compulsion by stealth".
Home Secretary Charles Clarke insisted - to much laughter and jeers from opposition MPs in the Commons on Monday evening - that "passports are voluntary documents".
He said: "No one is forced to renew a passport if they choose not to do so. That will remain the case once we begin issuing identity cards alongside passports."
But Liberal Democrat MP Nick Clegg said the government is trying to persuade people that voluntary actually means compulsory.
Clegg said: "The government is saying that every time someone renews their passport, they must receive an ID card; that every time someone applies for a new passport to pop across to Calais, visit relatives abroad or go on holiday to sunnier climates, they must receive an ID card; and that every time someone goes abroad for business with a new passport, they must receive an ID card."
Conservative MP Edward Garnier went further and accused the government of "riding roughshod over common sense and justice".
' He said: "They [the government] knew what 'voluntary' means but now they pretend it means something else.
"The government have changed their reasons for supporting not only identity cards but the national identity register, and they change their position on what they mean by 'voluntary' and what they think that they mean by 'compulsory' day by day."
The government won the vote to overturn the Lords' amendment with a majority of 33 and Clarke said peers should now drop their opposition to the ID cards bill.
But with Labour outnumbered in the House of Lords, a constitutional clash is on the cards later in the week when peers again vote on the bill, as they look set to continue their opposition to ID card registration being linked to passport applications.
A new survey of almost 600 silicon.com readers this week found that 80 per cent now oppose ID cards, compared to 60 per cent who were in favour just over a year ago.
Comments
There are 12 comments. Join the discussion
1. anonymous
Not so long ago I was totally in favour of the principle of ID cards because as most law abiding citizens I have nothing to hide.
My views have changed totally since the debate has become more public and with this governments continuing use of stealth and downright dishonesty in implementation of its policies and its apparent inability to carry out its promises in an open and honest manner I now take the opposing view that I have a lot to protect and before I could agree to ID cards the public needs to be assured that its identity is adequately protected by satisfactory government controls and safeguards to protect against abuse and fraud.
The current shambles and costs to the public in computerising the NHS patient records graphically highlights the problems.
Further,the fact that the DVLA,a government controlled body,has recently been reported selling driver records is yet further evidence of the potential for abuse of a national ID scheme.
Every government has a duty to protect its citizens and in introducing the ID system based upon its current track record would be very dubious indeed.
2. Maryon Jeane
I absolutely agree with Anonymous from Cheshire. Putting all one's data in one place is analogous to the adage about putting all one's eggs in one basket - and we all know what happens in that situation.
No administration/government of this country has ever completed an IT project with success. Quite the opposite. Every network (not just government ones) fails on a regular basis. Database security is never 100%. These are givens in the IT industry.
Our data simply would not - could not - be safe. And, as Anonymous points out, there is precedent to think it might well be sold. Not only the driving licence body but also such bodies as the police and the electoral roll keepers have sold our private information to third parties. The temptation is just too great, and there are too many people to whom collected personal information is very valuable indeed.
And you do have something to hide, Anonymous. Who knows what it might be? Your religious affiliation, perhaps (like the Jews in Nazi-controlled Germany); your ethnic origin (like the Tutsis who were stopped, asked for their ID and then killed or maimed when their ethnicity was seen); your genetic predisposition to Alzheimer's or Huntington's maybe, which could be leaked to your insurers...? None of us knows what we might want, or need, to hide in the future.
This ID database is about one thing: control. Every single person will be made vulnerable: to outside people who will hack into the database, to insiders who will sell the data on to malevolent parties, to a government which wishes to stop someone in their tracks (someone objecting against a government policy (the war in Iraq for example, or nuclear weapons, or...).
This is a Bad Idea.
3. Nick Morgan
Charles Clarke merely demonstrates why politicians in general are held in such contempt by the public. A Passport is clearly not a voluntary document if you either need or simply wish to travel abroad for work or recreation. To make an ID card mandatory with all new passports is clearly not making the ID card part voluntary. To offer the option to obtain an ID card at the same time as applying for a passport would make it voluntary.
I can only hope the the House of Lords will continue to oppose this measure and remind ministers of their commitment to a voluntary ID card. I for one do not believe it will actually do anything to improve security, which leads one to believe that the government's motivation is far more insidious than they would have us believe.
George Orwell would have loved to see this debate. He may have got the year wrong, but state control moves inexorably in the direction he predicted in 1984.
4. Richard Davies
I used to beleive that we lived in a Democracy however, the Goverments approach to this even though 80% of the population are against ID Cards just shows what they are really like.
You could inform them your view / wishes until your blue in the face and it makes absolutely no difference, they will carry on regardless of public opinion and this is a major worry for me...they waste tax payers money left, right and centre on schemes no one wants...what will be next.
5. anonymous
The question everbody must now seriously ask:
Is why do the Government and MPs insist on the cards being compulsory?
Once invoked there will be no going back short of a mass disobedience campaign of the sort Gandhi used.
6. anonymous
The Millenium Dome, Higher Taxes, Pension Cuts, Cuts to the Emergency Services, War in Iraq, NHS cuts, and now the National Identity Register!
Labour used to mean a party for the working people of this country. When did they become the neo-Nazi party?
If I'm expected to 'apply' for an ID card, the Government have another thing coming. I'll revolt, I'll rebel, it's my duty as a British Citizen!
If the Government treat us all as Criminals, then surely, we'll start to act like Criminals, especially when our civil liberties are at stake! Remember all the Civil Wars have been over such items as this...... Mr Blair watch out....
7. Yogesh Raja
It is so obvious that proposed biometric ID cards will divert but not deter identity fraud because for this system to work everyone will have to have these cards and every point of transaction will have to have new card readers. Since these ID cards will not satisfy both these conditions we will introduce following new complex problems.
1. Trader with equipment: How will these traders stop fraudsters who will bluff them with bogus passports to show that they don’t have to have these cards because they are visitors?
2. Traders without equipment: How will these traders stop fraudsters bluffing them with fakes of these ID cards as a proof of identity?
To deter identity fraud all we have to do is to make signature and PIN number reliable as described on website www.xwave.co.uk
Your comments will be appreciated.
8. Karen Challinor
Why is there so little coverage of this in the news, why are there no television programs debating the pros and cons, where are the detailed government rebuttals, why do I have to search long and hard to find anything up to date (besides silicon.com of course) on this issue.
80% of the population don't want this bill, I suspect the figure would be higher with more media coverage.
Come on journalists this is a story you can get your teeth into, government intrigues, secrets to be exposed, covert goings on at the highest level, will of the people being ignored, reputations being slandered. This isn't just bread and butter this is the jam to go on the bread and butter as well.
This should be all over the media, why isn't it ?
Has Dan Brown got the rights to it for his next book or something ? Why isn't there more coverage ?
9. anonymous
The previous correspondent asked why there had not been more media coverage of the implications of the ID card bill & all the other attacks on our liberty, privacy, civil rights, etc.
Why indeed? Well we know that the BBC & ITV have been neutered. Some of the daily newspapers are the lapdogs of New Labour. By the way another bill is proceeding through Parliament that will do away with the necessity to hols General Elections.
We are sleepwalking into a dictatorship, as a number of journalists have been brave enough to point out.
Up the Rebels !
10. Allan Shriver
We all know how 'secure' gov't info databases are (not), so exactly what 'cast iron' guarantees will this gov't give us citizens that IF our ID's are stolen from our stored ID Card details by cybercriminals, that they will spend unlimited time and money on each and every one of us on helping us to prove and re-establish our true identities?
11. misceng
Allan Shriver is right about security of Government databases but wrong about compensating those who suffer from a failure of the database. No amount of taxation would be enough and it would be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Only if it came out of the wealth of those Members of Parliament who voted for it would the cost of their stupidity be brought home to them.
12. anonymous
obviously there will be teething problems with ID cards , and they probably wont get it right for a while , BUT , stop being bigoted stupid objecting typical BRITS .
If it can stop one bombing , catch one rapist or one child molester i am all for it . I am also all for the uk residents as en Masse to have Compulsory DNA and finger print tests to be kept on a national Data base . OK its big brother , but Big brother is here to stay , lets all take advantage of it , and make our country safer .
Remember walkin down the street at night not lookin over a shoulder , remember goin out all day in the countryside and no one worried , remember playing in the street and making mates? Remember life before perverts and radical religious mudering Bigots ? Bet Osama Bin Laden wouldnt strap 5 Kg of semtex on himself and press the trigger to blow himself up . Wake up you fanatical wankers .
Cummon Brits , forget polotics get cards , tests etc , and stop this crap happening. !!