By Will Sturgeon, 9 September 2004 15:20
NEWS Apple's new-look G5 has attracted plaudits for its aesthetic appeal and much 'must get one' fervour among Mac devotees, but it appears there is a still a 'save it for home' attitude among UK firms, which see little scope for Apple in the workplace.
The results of a recent silicon.com survey show there is little or no place for such 'un-PC' aesthetics.
While 12 per cent of respondents say they would really have to make a good case for Macs before their company considered the switch, 41 per cent said 'No': Apple Macs are definitely not an option in their workplace.
A still surprising 31 per cent of respondents said they are optimistic their work may find a place for Apple Macs, but that figure possibly owes much to wishful thinking and some Mac loyalty among respondents given that it is far in excess of the sub-10 per cent market share the machines actually enjoy.
In the past critics of the Mac have labelled it 'form over function' - an accusation which designer Jonathan Ive refuted in June 2002, when he declared: "We are not interested in design statements."
Others have argued that the iMac does have place in the modern office - adding that place is on the reception desk looking 'cool' and possibly not even plugged in.
One Mac enthusiast told silicon.com: "The Mac is unlikely to ever take off in businesses, despite the impressive spec. Which is a shame really. The company I work for let me ditch my PC laptop for a PowerBook last month and I've been noticeably less tetchy ever since."
But will Mac users, typified as trendy and independent souls, really be bothered that their beloved machines aren't used by pen-pushers and grey-suited office types?
"Does it bother every BMW driver that every other car on the road isn't a BMW? Not really, it feels good to see an old banger and appreciate what you've got," added the Mac fan. "A bit like schadenfreude for techies."
A further 12 per cent of respondents suggested the closest their office will get to seeing Apple ware is when they take their iPod into work.
Comments
There are 40 comments. Join the discussion
1. anonymous
Why do you hate Apple so much? (Ed note. We don't. There, that was easy to answer) You are sooo out of touch. Most of the worlds technology centres are multi platform and there is no better way of administering Windows and Unix systems than the Mac. Talk to some big smart companies about the way Macs are growing their franchise with the buisinesses who are succeeding - like Cisco Sysyems.
2. Mike McCreadie
I saw a comparison recently between the G5 and an off the shelf PC offering at a similar price. The comparison was in graphics manipulation, something the Mac is renound for. The PC spanked its bottom. Not by a little but by a noticable margin.
The PC can also be easily upgraded (and fixed) because parts are readily available where as the Mac will have to be sent off for costly repair to a far away land.
Your article paints a picture of a superior Mac, but pound for pound that simply isn't the case, and on the maintenance and upgrade front its beaten hands down too. That's the real reason why it's not a sound business investment and very little to do with trend setting or an aversion to it.
By the way, I really like Macs!
3. anonymous
Virus problems is a good enough reason for never wanting to touch a PC. My workflow would be critically held back if I had to encounter even the odd virus.
As far as aesthetics are concerned, there’s no match! Macs are slicker!
In the past, or rather, pre OSX, I think PCs certainly had a case but since the advent of OSX things have changed. I no longer crash. In fact, I have not had my G5 crash since buying it more than a year ago!
4. Peter Trinder
The greatest reason for using a Mac in business is the low risk of virus and other attacks affecting the Mac OS X. Many businesses running PC Servers just DO NOT apply the regular patches and then wonder why they are vulnerable. This non application may be due to time and resouce costs. A Mac OS Xserve would not have this problem. I feel Apple should do more to convince the business world but they never seem to be doing much.
5. anonymous
Perhaps managers would think differently about Macs if they evaluated how much less time and effort was spent maintaining them.
6. Julian Sharp
I work for a small business that is about to invest in new workstations, servers, infrastructure & apps as part of a major investment in IT. As a recent 'switcher' from PC to Mac at home, I have been trying to find a way to price a cost-effective (TCO, not just initial capital cost) Apple complete solution (including the right software package).
If we could find one, we would prefer to implement it over a 'standard' PC Windows Server/Workstation solution but since we are not in one of the 'typical' Mac user categories of Design, Architecture, Publishing etc, we have found it very hard work indeed to find information about relevant products and suppliers. We want an integrated Order Processing, Stock Control & Accounting package (rather like Sage Line50 with a 3rd Party DB add-on) plus the usual Office suite.
The way things are going, I can see that we will have to 'settle' for a standard PC network & NOS because it is proving too difficult to find an Apple based solution (if one exists).
If Apple do want to expand into the small-business market (I don't know if they do or not) they would do well to consider how to place the right information at the fingertips of the decision makers who, in small businesses), often have limited time in which to research.
7. David Owen
All PC users have a some negative opinions of Mac Computers, usually unfounded, as they've never tried them properly or at all. Add to the fact that support people will always specify a PC, because it keeps them in a job. Mac's generally need far less support. Its a Mac users best kept secret. As for compatability, We've run a business using predominantly Macs for 14 years (in a PC world!) and we've never been disavantaged!
8. Terry Carlin
The adverse reaction is due to the limited scope of most techies. They are scared to death of having to learn somthing that doesn't come from Redmond. The same attitude also applies to looking at Linux properly.
9. Sam Vaux
I worked for an Applepoint between 93-97. Apple killed our business and all the other Apple dealers by changing the sales model to support the Warehouses and big guns. They took all the specialisation and knowledge and the high street presence and threw it away for a quick buck they never got. Shame on you Apple you only have yourself to blame.
10. anonymous
Why the resistance to Macs in the office?
We are a small consultancy business with only four machines between three people: two Mac PowerBooks, one Toshiba laptop and a Dell desktop. We have no problems with files or communications between machines and everyone gets to use what they are happiest and most productive with - and no, the Mac users are not " just designers".
11. anonymous
Mac's do have a place in Business - DTP Graphical work etc. With regards to the Virus debate - why write viruses for a system that has such a small share of the market. As operating systems get more popular then more viruses will appear for them. Mac OS9 is very administrator unfriendly compaired to a PC. not seen osX yet. As with any Apple product the only hardware has to come from Apple (people slate Mshaft for similar). the Ipod is a typical example of this.
I wouldn't recomend Mac's unless it was for DTP/Grtaphical work.
Apple tried to claim that the New G5 was the fastest thing in the world - When checking the report on the tests the spec's were not equivalent!
Oh by the way I use Win XP SP2 with no problems at all - Nice one MShaft
12. Sacha Mitchell
Macs software equivalents
Hi Julian, don't assume you can't get what you need. At the very least, you can run a Windows OS inside Virtual PC for Mac (recently optimised for G5 Macs) or OSX Wintel (costs less - www.openosx.com/wintel - already optimised for G5 Macs). To get the full benefit of this option, use Win2000 instead of XP and don't connect to the internet inside the emulated environment - use the Mac's far more secure OS instead for that.
BETTER STILL, look into your other options:
1. Contact Apple UK - get them on the case - they should be able to look into 2 and 3 below, plus anything else you need - it's in their interests to get your business up and running on Macs first and foremost.
2. Look into the various accounting software available - MYOB and others have higher-end products if you research enough.
3. Office suite - I recommend the free NeoOffice/J, which I have found to be very worthwhile:
http://www.planamesa.com/neojava/en/index.php
13. Simon
I use a Mac as my main machine, I'm the only one in IT to do so and no-one dares suggest taking it off me !
One of the problems I've faced in keeping Macs in the business (we were once nearly all Mac, now I'm the only regular Mac user outside the Design dept) is an attitude from senior management that "everyone else uses PCs and [MS] Office, so we need to". A secondary element of that is that we had a lot of old Macs that didn't run 'current' versions of Office so it became a 'fact' that Macs don't run Office.
Another issue is the number of things that are built to not work with Macs - like the web sites built with MS software that just don't work properly, if at all, with anything but Internet Exploder.
Until we can break the MS monopoly we will be stuck where we are with a monopolistic supplier doing everything in their power to keep out competitors and with incentives to keep their stuff non-interoperable with open standards. I think the best bet there is for a few large goverments to mandate such interoperability - but I can't see that happening.
In the server room Apple don't exectly help themselves. We ordered two of the new G5 XServes back in January - one didn't arrive until August due to problems with the RAID card. Despite attempts to contact them, Apple were 100% silent on the matter. Seven months for a server is just no good when I've had them in 7 days from Dell in the past !
14. Matthew Bate
As a Mac fan, I love negative comments, because they're all wrong! Not compatible - More expensive - Not a Virus Target - Form over function - Higher support costs - Limited expandability - Slower speed...
We've disproved them all by swapping a small team to Mac OSX on a compulsory basis.
I have banned Windows from the company for security reasons and it worked perfectly, first time.
15. anonymous
Hi,
If you are already familiar with Apple computer's business solutions, you will be well aware that actually, they offer an extremely comprehensive range of solutions. The problem is, most businesses are extremely Wintel centric.
However, if Apple are really serious about selling into business, they have to play in the same space as Dell, HP, etc. Help corporate IT folks to sell Mac's within their own organisations. Apple are going in the right direction with their XServer pricing and design, but they need to now address the client side. Produce CHEAP G5 iMac and Mac tower system (starting at £500 or less), and make it grey or black! It shouldn't look so different from a Dell (Trojan Horse strategy). Give IT departments a reason to try Macs both from a price and design (they don't like 'arty-looking boxes') perspective.
If Apple REALLY want to get serious about building market share and boosting their share price, then start selling Mac OS X on Intel boxes (alongside their own Apple branded Intel box) and just watch the positive result.....
16. Richard
I assume the G5 / PC comparison Mike McReadie refers to was the one conducted on a lightweight popular TV show (correct me if I am wrong).
The graphics test in question was a frame rate comparison in Doom 7 or some other vital productivity app... And the "off the shelf" windows PC was a specialised gaming machine, designed to give high frame rates for gaming. D'Oh.
So we learn that Macs may not be the best for gaming but this bears no relation to the value of the Mac OS in the office.
If I want to play games I can buy a Playstation 2. If I want to be productive in the office I use an Apple Macintosh - be it for photoshop or powerpoint.
Granted, XP is the first tolerable windows OS and frankly, I rather like it. Then I get back onto Mac OS X and realise how vastly superior it is. Honestly, just try it!
In business as in agriculture, monocultures are mostly bad and when combined with high density / connectivity lead to disease infestations and poor products (just think of battery chickens, lice-ridden farmed salmon etc). Similarly the computing environment needs diversity.
The only grounds for ruling out Macs in the office are those solid business principles such as fear, ignorance, inertia, laziness, lack of imagination. And an aversion to good design.
17. Bob Pearce
It might have something to do with the care with which PC developers ensure compatibility one with another. Apple customarily abuse their pathetically loyal fans by releases hardware and software that is "somewhat" compatible with what went before..... and somehow the blame for any incompatibility faults seems to be laid at the feet of either the retailer, or the software developer.... but no, not Apple!
18. anonymous
Lets face it whatever the relative merits of the PC and the Mac. Mac's are great machines but if the Mac didn't exist no on would bother inventing it.
Apple chose the proprietory route. They chose the high price tag high end of the market. It worked for a while but PC's have caught up and in terms of bang per buck and available software, you just can't beat them. Saying that support people can't be bothered to learn them is like saying engineers don't understand imperial units any more. If you know one perfectly good system why learn another.
19. Mike McCreadie
Richard, the PC was no more "specialised" than a G5 - it was chosen because it was a similar price and it was not modified in any way - it was picked "off the shelf" - D'oh!
And the specific comparison was not a gaming test, it was a graphics rendering procedure.
Get your facts right please.
20. anonymous
It seems the Mac can only succed if its head and shoulder above PC's for IT specialists to look further than there own desktop. 'Simply much Better' is not quite good enough. Mac will probably end up doing what its good at - wait for OSX for PC.
21. stephen feber
I can't believe you are still running this Mac is crap XP is wonderful debate guys. I run Macs and XP PCs. The Apples have been utterly reliable and very stable for the past two years. OSX is an easy environment to use, espcially handling, finding and storing files. It's also superior at networking, this is especially true if the PCs have different versions of Windows. The PCs have been variable but they need MORE not less looking after because they are more prone to attack. The MS software upgrade system is clunky compared to software update. Whilst the PCs process some things quicker I find over time they need more looking after - defragging, virus checking etc. And, on the whole the software is slower, less productive.....outside of the Office suite. And if you don't believe me look at FTP software in Windows and OSX. OSX wins hands down, as does iPhoto, Garage Band, iMovie etc.
22. Adrian Carter
The recent comparison on TV was flawed in one vital aspect. It came to light that there was some doubt over whether the G5 had dual processor support enabled during the Photoshop trial.
Without this plugin enabled the Mac was effectively not firing on both processors and this is enough to seriously bias the test.
The plugin is widely available and free for Photoshop on the Macintosh and does make a difference.
For the record before anyone has a crack at me for being pro Mac anti PC, I use both.
ADi
23. Mickael Behn
It really doent matter these days. All Computer system work for what business users need them to do. Office works on both platforms just as well. I manage a large number of PC's at work and there all controlled and managed via my powerbook G4. So the theory that Macs are not made for business is just unfounded. IT managers should know all system on there network, be it Macs, PC's, Linux or Unix. Thats there job to work with Computers. All those that cant be bothered to deal with other systems then there own are either lazy or not interested in the feild of computing outside of the Money aspect of things.
I deal with all systems for graphics to video editing to file storage and information management. I need to find solutions not reasons why not to use a System like a Mac or Linux.
The one fact i do know in real world experience is that Macs last longer and maintence is low on them. On teh mac you dont need to deal with Spyware, and Virus currently. that alone makes my life 50% easier and gives me more time to improve systems, as opposed to troubleshooting whats already there.
People who use Macs love them, people who use PC's like them but get annoyed by them.
I make my money by supporting PC's, i make very little doing support on Mac's for the simple reason that since OSX has been around there a less issue's like viruses and crashing.
Someone here stated why learn another system if teh current PC system works fine, yes well why learn another language when English works fine, because you need to expand your possibilites not stay limited to the only thing you know.
24. anonymous
It doesn't matter how 'fast' your PC is, it will still be ten times slower than any mac because you won't be able to find anything. That file you just received, where did it go? Unzipping a file, where to? Writing a CD how long does that take? The speed isn't in the chip, it's in the using. Mac's are miles faster to use regardless of chip speed because they do what they say on the can. And yes, I am a designer but I also use PC's and I also look after the network and do all my company's tech support.
25. Keith Hague
Julian Sharpe check this out.
Hansa systems on www.hansaworld.com have exactly what you need. They offer a cross platform package tailored to your exact needs which integrates into either Sage or their own excellent accounts package. It will co-ordinate all users mac or pc throughout your company. You could also check out Filemaker pro who offer an excellent range of solutions, we use it all the time. Again it's cross platform and will integrate with sage through a third party link by a company named Durodata.
26. anonymous
I have just spent all weekend trying to get two windowsXP machines to just talk to each other totally without success. I called my friend who works as a telephone support for huge networks all over Europe, he says it's really difficult with that configuration. Last week I had to install windows2000 on a workstation and viruses got to it before I could install something to keep them out. This doesn't happen at all with macs they just work. PC's are literally a waste of time.
27. Simon
Anonymous Architect wrote : "If you know one perfectly good system why learn another."
Hmm, perfectly good ?
Incompatible with anything else (by design).
Full of bugs and security vulnerabilities (by design*).
Bloated and requires huge resources (by design*).
And all done with a basic business model of preventing competition rather than making a better product.
Interesting concept of "perfectly good" !
* These are inherent problems of the design/development model that MS make a big thing about !
28. Richard Stegmann
So many IT departments just do what the've always done and are basically ignorant about what the Mac could do for their business. I believe that the choice to "go PC" is more often than not, NOT an informed choice. Who is paying these people?
29. Andrew Rice
G5 is Ugly!
I have a G4 which is nice but why did they have to make the G5 look like a caged animal?
I'll stick to my PC's for now.
30. Mike McCreadie
Just in case anyone's still reading this particular column - Apple have just released patches for their last set of patches for OSX. Well bugger me, turns out that, just like Microsoft, they make mistakes too.
Nobody's perfect but the PC has closed the gap so much there aint one there no more. If the Mac is to survive it needs to raise its game and become more upgradable and fixable because all its got over the PC just now is a marginally more friendly OS. Oh, and it's cooler to own a Mac too.
31. dN
There is always one aspect of Apple systems that is overlooked in a business case discussion... the Operating System. OS X is a great operating system that far exceeds what XP can do. It is more secure and more stable "out of the box"; it fully supports popular business applications [including MS Office]; and is incredibly easy to use. I am an experienced Windows / Linux SysAdmin who has recently bought a Mac for the house. Given the option I would gladly swap my work PC for a Mac. IMHO, it is a perfect blend of proprietary and open source in one OS. Apple should indeed be applauded for their design of the iMac and that includes the design and creation of the Operating System.
32. Bob Wiggins
I have to use PC/Microsoft because my clients do; but I mainly use an Apple Mac G5 as the operating system (Mac OSX) is far easier to use and is more stable than Windows 98/ 2000 and is perfectly capable of running Microsoft Office products. It also avoids 99% of viruses which would affect the Windows environment.
No competition really!
33. James Rodd
I've used Macs a home for the past 12 years - remember the classic - and they have suited all my needs. I'm not a gamer but I do get into imovie, iphoto etc and enjoy their functionality and simplicity.
At work I've always had to deal with PC's and while they do the job, I'm continually spending time finding lost files for employees, trying to figure out what they have done to cause the computer to crash etc , etc.
I recently set up an Apple network and now I'm beginning to think that it was a bad idea because I'm rarely asked to solve any problems.
At the next metting to review our computer acquisition policy I think I'll push PC's so I can keep my job.
34. Claude Baines
Shhhhh.. you guys are going to give away our secret of better productivity and lower blood pressure! If everyone switches over to Macs, then the stupid virus hackers will switch with them... there goes the neighborhood. We have to keep the market share large enough for Apple to prosper, and yet small enough not to attract attention.
35. anonymous
Why get a mac when you can go to Windows. More choices of hardware and software.
36. anonymous
heres a nice idea; If stress had a dollar figure on it, how much money would you be spending worrying about virus' and crashing on your PC? I'd say after a month of ownership, the cost would get you a brand new Power Mac G5 :P
37. MikeW
Linux is great on PowerPC !
38. Maceo Parker
Does anybody know Keith Richards (from the Rolling Stones) played with Maceo Parker?
http://www.maceo-parker.com/search/Keith_Richards.html
39. anonymous
Gee, why do I hate apple? Cause I hate it when
I fall for a complete con, like apple. I am launching a startup, which involves sending
sketch/diagrams to China. The whole process
is so much better on the PC. Scan, store,
attach to email. done. I bought the G5 thinking
it would be easier for business. WRONG.
And the cute litle wireless mouse died the 1st
time it was dropped.
And I could not open a notepad email..
If the apples are so easy, why do apple stores have to offer classes...
There is a reason apple has a single digit market
share, it is called bad product, overpriced, overhyped.
40. Aunty Anne
Macs are used throughout my company, by sales and accounts staff as well as studio staff. Most people at work use a computer to get stuff done, just as they would use a biro or a pencil, which both put words on paper. These people don't much care which type of computer they use, as most don't understand computers anyway, so having a mac istead of a pc is no more difficult for them to use (they just look better when they are using them!).