NEWS Companies that outsource call centre operations to India, principally to save money, could be shooting themselves in the foot as UK customers turn away from them in the long term.
The move to offshored facilities is now a well-documented one, with insurance group Aviva, owner of Norwich Union, revealing yesterday it will send 2,500 jobs to India.
India competes with other economies such as the Philippines, China, Mexico, Russia and Ireland for such contracts but is frequently a winner, as explained recently in an interview with silicon.com by the co-founder of Infosys, because it can offer both quantity and quality of tech-literate, English-speaking staff.
However, according to Steve Morrell, principal analyst at ContactBabel, call centre offshoring is only about cost-cutting.
He said: "In manufacturing, you get the pretty much the same shirt wherever it is made. For back office [functions], what you get is pretty much the same. But when it comes to customer service, you're talking about quality."
He believes there may well be a backlash against companies that have offshored - not against India or Indian people per se - and company bosses will have to ask whether they will pay for more expensive British workers "who do the job that is meant to be done."
The latest figures from ContactBabel actually put average starting salaries for Indian call centre agents at around £1,500 - their UK equivalents start on an average of £13,000 per annum. There is a less of a difference at managerial level - £5,000 per annum versus an average £27,000 in the UK - but it is still large.
The research critically found that Indian agents work faster than their UK peers and put in about six more hours each week but UK workers deal with 25 per cent more calls each hour and resolve 17 per cent more first time. The study was based on 300 operations in the UK and India.
Morrell said: "There is no reason the guys in India can't do as good a job given enough time. While a substantial number of Indian agents speak very good English with barely any accent at all, there has not generally been enough time given.
"If people are saying they're moving call centres to India for anything other than cost then they're bloody liars."
A situation may develop, Morrell added, where 'British and proud of it' companies make a point of advertising their facilities haven't been offshored. "There is an opportunity there for someone," he said.
Earlier this year a MORI poll found that over 90 per cent of Britons are either oblivious (26 per cent) to the offshore call centre trend, or are more than happy (66 per cent) to have their customer services queries answered by a facility abroad – as long as it's answered quickly and professionally.
The ContactBabel report, 'The UK and Indian Contact Centre Operational Reviews', is available now.
Comments
There are 107 comments. Join the discussion
1. anonymous
I will not be renewing any of my Norwich Union insurance policies, even if it costs me more to go elsewhere. Major employers have to realise their social responsibilities, as well as their financial/shareholder responsibilities.
2. Karl Robinson
I had my very first offshore call centre experience earlier this week, when attemting to purchase a PC from Dell. I was certainly not oblivious to the fact that the call centre was in India! The problem was not the quality of the English spoken by the operators, it was their comprehension. I speak with little or no regional accent and generally people do not struggle to understand me over the telephone. I did however have to be transferred to a second Indian operator as the first was unable to answer my simple question regarding delivery addresses. I then struggled to explain to this operator that the delivery address was in the Isle of Man - he clearly had no grasp on the geography of the British Isles. All in all, it took me 4 phone calls and up to 1 hour to purchase the PC, the spec of which I knew prior to making the call. I was very tempted to purchase my PC from elsewhere - the whole experience has left me wondering about the ongoing telephone support offered by Dell for the PC that I have just purchased!
3. Gareth Wilson
I am certain there is already a backlash occuring, almost everyone I know is turning away from companies using offshore call centres or at least calling them at times they know they will get an agent in the UK.
Recent examples in my experience have invloved car insurance quotes through admiral. When put through to the indian call centre the agent was unable to find the car I wished to insure on the database (SAAB 93 so nothing obscure). When call was put through to agent in the UK car was insured within ten minutes.
Directory enquiry calls being put through to offshore agents are even more frustrating as the agents can't spell UK place names and don't have any local knowledge which I would think is very useful thing to have.
Finally mobile phone company 3, it seems all their agents are offshore and so far they have not dealt with one call I or three other people I know who have mistakenly bought a 3 phone, successfully.
Whilst I fully understand the economic benefits of offshore call centres I believe that unless quality improves vastly the backlash will continue. Finally what about all those workers losing their jobs in the UK? Seems to me history is repeating itself and yet another indusry is going the same way the UK manufacturing sector went.
4. anonymous
If I had the choice of two companies and the only thing that seperated them was that one company had an Indian call center and the other's was based in the UK then I would choose the UK. Purely on the fact that I've had terrible service from just about every Indian call center that I've had to deal with. In fact, I'd probably pay more for a UK based call center (although some of them could do with a bit of a shake up, since they can also leave a lot to be desired at times).
5. Karen Challinor
I'm not against globalisation but can we have a level playing field first ?
Don't forget that some IT departments are getting rid of their programming staff and outsourcing them to India as well, the last two companies I worked for were starting to do that over two years ago.
6. Mike Taylor
Didn't you (Silicon) recently publish that Dell had had a backlash in America and so were reverting to onshore? Mike Taylor
7. Jason Smith
Invariably there is bad service when you reach an offshore call center rather than a UK one. My particular experience has been terrible with two particular companies (who won't be named). The level of service is one consideration but the more important one is the loss of jobs from this country. I have already written to my MP over this problem and have yet to receive an answer.
8. Roger Allen
I have a policy both in business and at home of closing accounts with companies that outsource call centres abroad.
Indian call centre staff often use assumed western names and are familiar with British weather reports as well as whats happening in the main TV Soaps.
One could be forgiven for thinking this is a deception towards the clients?
Cost cutting exercises by major companies choosing offshore solutions never result in price reductions to the consumer. If consumers vote with their feet the call centres will come back.
Call centre operations generally increase customer satisfaction. Just look at the UK Banks. In an age of amazing communication possibilities they have made themselves almost impossible to talk to, especially for a business.
9. anonymous
I keep getting telemarketing calls from India - irratating as I'm registered with the Telephone Preferrence Service (TPS) which should stop this. I think that many of these outsource contracts effectively take the companies doing them outside of UK regulations for a while in this way - and I'd like to know that the UK regulators are hot on their case. Do some surveys, mystery shopping calls, raise some fines and sinners lists.
I certainly would boycott the 'leading UK Financial Services Provider' primarily responsible for the series of calls I've had if I could get the agents to tell me who they are. Quite telling that they won't permit their name to be associated with the service.
The agents and supervisors seem OK though and I don't really mind where the call comes from.
10. anonymous
Will policies drop in price due to the cost savings? No. Will the senior managers get increases? Of course. Will I "outsource my insurance policy" to another company. Too right I will. Sorry Norwich Union but this is going to take money out of the economy and will eventually bite you in the lower spinal region. Business should not just be about saving money.
11. Shiraz Bashir
Whether a company is out-sourcing due to cost cutting or for some other strategic decision the under-lying fact remains that you might pay a UK based English speaking member of staff more money but do you get improved quality of service ? Going by current experiences of dealing with call centres and UK employed customer services personnel I need a little more convincing.
Traditionally call centre staff are not the beginning and end all of this debate. The front end call management system managing those incoming calls is also crucial to a successful investment be it in India or UK. The infamous BT menu systems that customers have been tortured into using for many years still leaves a funny taste in the mouth. Anyway I seem to be getting side-tracked.
India and all other developing countries out there are getting smart and getting themselves upto speed with our western ways of doing business. Companies are making the investments required on telecom infrastructure and the staffing in those regions because I do feel that those folk out there will go that extra mile to satisfy a customer. Having a good paid job in these countries is like a golden opportunity and staff cannot afford to give poor service. Yes I agree that language is not always quite the queens English but they only hire staff who committed to doing a good job, can be understood and can express themselves properly to the customer.
The UK Chaps need to buck up their ideas and rather than transfer customers from department to department take ownership and teflon so much.
12. anonymous
I believe in outsourcing and it does not matter if its call centres or any other operations. My company just saved a UK business GBP2 million a year from an outsourcing contract. This saving is going directly to the bottom line and to shareholders!!!
13. anonymous
I'm a NU customer and if the cost savings are going to be passed on in the form of reduced premiums, then fine. But they have to (1) ensure that the level of service is the same (which from experience it isn't yet and (2) ensure that the savings aren't just swollowed up in bonus payments to directors and dividends to share-holders. It's the customer who will invariably suffer from not the "fat-cats"
14. anonymous
I have noticed a degradation in the service I experience from BT conferencing, which I put down to off-shoring to India. The line quality is sometimes so bad you have to hang up and I have had difficulty understanding some agents. They are also less able to answer slightly more complex queries which is frustrating and puts you off using BT.
15. I Stanley
Having recently purchased a new car with a Group 18 insurance category I obtained the cheapest quote through Norwich Union Direct - My previous insurers and the preferential rates available through my employer (both utilising Norwich Union - I was advised by the sales call centre that it was common to compete against themselves??) were at least £400 more expensive. However during the change over from old car to new car I got put through to Norwich Union's call centre in India. The quality of service and ability to communicate in english was appauling...so much so when I asked to be put through to a supervisor it took me several attempts to make my wish come true...It wouldn't be so bad if the were as clear as Apu from The Simpsons.
Whilst I admit to being a shareholder of Aviva - I appreciate cost cutting moves, but will the moves to cutting british jobs help the government? What about the lossed taxation of those that have lost jobs and the those that may go on to claim benefits...companies should foot some of this addition burden on the UK taxpayer....
But hey maybe I am talking complete CR@P....on the other hand the southern hemisphere is looking very attractive alternative....
16. Bria Smith
Idiums, local dialects and phraseology. I have nothing against other nationalities answering the phone but have difficulty explaining things to persons who do not understood the above. Its more a matter of understanding nationality and culture than words when answering queries.
17. anonymous
I only ever call my bank when I have a relatively complicated problem - everything else I can handle online. So to start with it's annoying to hit an IVR system that wants to tell you your balance before any option to speak to an op. I've learnt to deal with this by hitting a random bunch of numbers which gets me straight through. BUT now I have the added inconvenience of being put through to an offshore centre that has not once been able to demonstrate the competency to handle my call. We are not talking rocket science, last time I needed to trace a transfer from a foreign bank. The agent clearly didn't understand what I was talking about... and eventually had to get someone from my branch to call me back. Even more annoyingly the branch refused to give me a direct number, so I had to go through the whole process again. I fail to see who benefits from this mess. HSBC by the way.
18. Rob
Yet again another prime example of how badly companies/corporations treat/regard their customers now, they don't care about us, the cost savings won't be passed on to us but on to the fat cats who sit bloated in their boardrooms.
I have nothing against call centres in India as long as they are trained thoroughly in local knowledge, in fact I'm sure some companies could do with moving their call centres off-shore, might improve their service/communication skills (you listening Orange).
19. anonymous
Having had problems with Dell and the 'technical service' I do worry in the initial stages for the quality of the service. I am very worried at the idea of my Banking details, including account balances, passwords, credit rating etc. being handled by someone however honest, halfway around the world and I will close any bank accounts that outsource any such services. As for the man from the Pru, well I am sure there are other companies.
20. anonymous
Dell's offshore customer service (India) has damaged our company's view of Dell. After sending a computer for repair and receiving it back 2 weeks later inoperable (machine would not turn on), we contacted Dell for assistance in receiving a reasonable resolution. After all, the machine turned on BEFORE we sent it to DELL. We contacted Tech Support (talked to several individuals from India) for assistance only to experience difficulty understanding what they were trying to say, went through scripted steps that were useless to the situation and no one had the authority to satisfy our situation.
21. anonymous
I already do not deal with companies which I know to have shipped jobs overseas - this includes manufacturers ( Ford and Dyson for example ) and the insurers NU and I believe Prudential.
I only wish there was a complete list of companies which had done this !
22. Andrew Lewis
I have had disastrous calls with a number of companies using offshore call centres. Sometimes as much use as a chocolate teapot. Lack of geopraphical and colloquial knowledge being far more prevalent as an offender than linguistic skills.
These companies have a moral duty to employ UK based staff and help our economy. After all, the UK customers' monies are good enough for them aren't they?
I shall avoid like the plague any companies that use offshore call centres in the future.
As the NU Board of Directors have seen fit to pursue the offshore path as a cost cutting excercise, can myself and other NU / Aviva shareholders take it that the Board are actively pursuing offshore replacements for themselves to recommend to the shareholders as new Directors at the next AGM as a cost cutting excercise?
23. Andrew Jarvis
Offending customer loyalty is not even the whole problem. The customers of such companies as Norwich Union may well be the very call centre agents being made redundant by these companies. So they are actually harming their own domestic market financially. Fine if the indians are buying their products, but I imagine that is not the case.
24. anonymous
Customers will benefit from increased competition of call centres, since be they here, or in India some will always do it better than others; remember that often call centres in UK are not owned by the product company but already outsourced. History shows that more competition means lower prices as well as better service. We have outsourced half our accounts team to India, saving money and increasing quality.
More profits in UK means more growth, thus more able to employ people in UK in our front office operationsand & more tax paid by us to UK govt.
25. Craig Golby
I am against the off-shoring of services such as Call Centres, particularly as my wife is due to be made redundant from HSBC next year as a result of such a plan.
However, to a certain extent the UK centres only have themselves to blame.
My experience of UK Call Centres is nothing short of appalling, and I work in an industry (IT) that is heavily involved in the supporting technologies, so I understand what is and isnt possible. I have been involved in the setting up of a call centre from scratch, and whilst it was a relatively small one (under 100 staff) we took pride in the way our customers were routed.
Most companies dont seem to bother, so we all end up listening to lift music for 30 minutes. Then when you do get through to someone, in most instances they are unhelpful, uncooperative, inexperienced, and you get passed from pillar to post before finally giving up, or demanding to speak to a manager.
Tell me, how is an offshore call centre going to be any worse.
Noted the issues with dialects, and place names that have been mentioned here, however certain centres are being educated on weather conditions in the UK, sporting events, the soaps and more.
And ultimately if they are willing to do these things, learn the lingo, and provide a comparable service, for 10% of the cost what chance do we stand.
So UK Call Centre operatives and IT staff, there is only one chance, buck your ideas up, provide an above excellent service and prove to your employers why off-shoring is such a bad idea.
26. tim
do we need to outsource maths as well?
----- average starting salaries for Indian call centre agents at around £1,500 - their UK equivalents start on an average of £13,000 per annum. There is a less of a difference at managerial level - £5,000 per annum versus an average £27,000 in the UK - but it is still large-----
(Ed note. Not sure we get your point Tim. £1,500 is 11 per cent of £13,000. Whereas £5,000 is 18 per cent of £27,000 therefore the above is correct the differences at managerial level are smaller in real percentage terms.)
27. Pat Bermingham
I agree with Shiraz, my experience of UK call centres has been pretty shoddy, bounced from dept to dept made to repeat the same story over and over!.
It's about time UK call centres woke up, get cold and wet and go that extra mile and god forbid make the customer happy!
Cost/benefit and happy customers is what it's all about and contrary to the doom and gloom bandied about the UK has many commercial advantages to offer, just takes a bit of vision, common sense and oh a bit of graft
28. anonymous
Another company that doesn't know the difference between Maximising profits and Optimising profits. I was taught the distinction in an A-level economics class. Possibly the company directors never studied economics? They will learn the hard way as they loose customers.
29. anonymous
Increased taxes for UK Citizens
Is Gordon Brown aware that with the increasing use of offshore services he is looking the 40% tax take he currently benifits froim, especially in IT services. will he tax the remaining jobs more? How is he going to counter this revenue fall.
30. Jay Bamford
You cut me off at the end of point 1)! so
2) someone has moved back and IS making a point of it and their name
is DELL, leading the way once more though as a non-Dell customer I don't know if they were one of the early off-shorers, if they were then I hope they have learned a big lesson.
Technical queries cannot be answered by people who cannot grasp what is being asked, in however many ways it is expressed, and again, AT MY EXPENSE. Hopefully other companies will also see the light and find other, more intelligent ways of serving economically. That means YOU
Powergen, NTL, American Express, LloydsTSB ! etc,etc. groan, groan.
31. anonymous
Data Protection?
Isn't there an issue about data protection if UK personal data is exported to an Indian company so it can run a call centre for a UK company? I thought that EC rules required that countries receiving data from a UK country had to have data privacy laws in place at least as good as exist in the EC. According to Computing this week, India has no data protection laws at all.
32. chris spackman
I had a terrible experience with American Express this week when reporting my card lost. I was put through to an Indian call centre and had enormous difficulty making myself understood. It took several attempts to spell my name, it then took many attempts to sort out a delivery address for the new card. I had to speak to two people etc. In total it took about 30-40 minutes. I did the same with the Coop and it took 3 minutes to report it lost. I had no difficulty communicating at all.
My astonishment is that Amex charge for a premium service, yet the coop card is free!!
33. David Barrow
With the quality of people in UK customer service centers, I can only see the service level increasing if the jobs go to India. They also speak better English out their and would probably care about their jobs.
34. Mark Dexter
I received a call from a 'consumer survey' company (I didn't catch its name) from a guy with a very thick Indian accent on a terrible phone line claiming to be called Rodney Hampshire! I felt sorry for the guy as his bosses had obviously told him he may get a better response rate if he pretended to be British. I wouldn't take the call though. I work in IT recruitment and my industry is being decimated by 'offshoring'. The north of England is just beginning to recover from all the clothing industry jobs going to Asian sweat-shops, only for all the call centre and programming jobs that have been springing up to go the same way.
35. Don Tregartha
Instead of winging about this, why doesn't Amicus publish the list of UK firms exporting service jobs overseas - then we can all make our choice and refuse to do business with them.
UK call centres are like the curate's egg, there are some really stupid set-ups, but at least you can play the game with them and get the stuff you require, something not usually possible with the overseas ones, due to cultural and linguistic differences, poor line quality etc.etc.
36. Pat Fleck
If any company that I deal with decides to off-shore its workers then they can sure that I will Off-Shore that company and give my money to a company that employs people who live in the UK.
37. dick stroud
It is the duty of companies to continually review costs and to drive them lower, whilst maintaining levels of quality. India has a large pool of intelligent, well educated, motivated and from my experience friendly staff. I fear this is not something you can say about most parts of the UK. Mainly due to Brussels bureaucrats we now have idiotic levels of legislation involved with employing staff that is an active block to employment.
Is it any wonder that the trickle of job loss is about to turn into an avalanche.
Just imagine how much money the NHS could save, to divert into patient care, if it outsourced its back office processes.
38. Nick Parker
Cold-calling at 1/10 of the labour rate - only problem is they are wasting my time at the full rate. This is the telephone equivalent of spam.
I can spot them by the satellite delay, so I politely put them on hold and leave them there.
39. Martin
It was bad enough when BT moved their directory enquieries from local exchanges to the main centres, (you could ask the operator 'whats the name of that shop ...?' -and they knew)but I STRONGLY object to losing jobs in the UK and giving them to other countries. I cancelled my Diners Card when the help desk was moved to Ireland and like many of you here will boycott companies that offshore call centres.
40. Chris Downing
CRM is Destroying Value. The fact is most comapnies using CRM have realised that this destroys customer loyalty, creates all the wrong signals in the marketplace, and is out of control. Customers are the source of all revenues and they're being treated pretty badly (and that's the customers' polite langauge!) by CRM tactics. I just cannot believe that senior management are saying yes to these systems and understanding in depth the decisions they are taking. I'm seeing some of the biggest users coming back the other way - just watch what happens to this market over the next three years - it will collapse.
41. Trevor Roberts
I have had very poor experiences with offshore call centres. I have found the Indian centres very abrupt and rude when they are trying to sell.
Therefore I will not buy from them.
42. anonymous
my first offshore experience was with dell. i won't buy from them again. two months calling the helpdesk, each time having to re-explain my problem, still no resolution. i've never had this happen in the uk, even from the worst of companies (even from ntl!!)
43. anonymous
Whilst I can sympathise with many of the comments with regard to quality of service, I just wonder how many people complaining of jobs being exported are driving German or Japanese cars, listening to their Japanese stereo (probably made in China) and using their Scandanavian mobile phone - not whilst driving hopefully!
44. Robert Spragg
I personally will be ascertaining whether any companies I deal with are offshoring and if so will cancel all dealings with them forthwith
45. ITINVADER
Everyone concerned with this trend, visit and support http://itinvader.co.uk This site is going to be ramped up and heavily advertised in January 2004 and 'Villains' better beware
46. Marc
Does a web site exist that lists companies that are offshore outsourcing? I will not support any company that follows this route and am keen to ensure that any business I do is with companies that support UK jobs. I had been thinking of buying a Dell PC - and I currently have a Barclays bank account - I will now look at alternatives. I wonder how many other companies I am supporting unknowningly. If a list of these companies does not exist - can some one please find a way to create it!
47. anonymous
I am absolutely against Indian call centres. All that i ask is that UK calls are answered at call centres in the UK, since those in indian have no real idea about the geography of the UK at all. As for people who say it is alright, they will pay the price eventually when there are no service sector jobs left in the UK. I think it is an absolute disgrace, especially HSBC who emphasise their local credentials.
48. anonymous
Most of the companies are now thinking of outsourcing to India..while for most of the cost is the driving factor, I do not believe that they would choose to be operational for fairly long time if their customers are not happy, share-holders are protesting and overall profitiablity and prodcutivity has not increased. Let us face it: Indians have proved that they can do a £ 5/hour job at less than half the price and quality expected to be delivered by perhaps £ 10/hour staff member for the same job!!!The other issues are more for the companies to resolve as they are more of training issues and setup issues.
49. anonymous
I am a Noriwch Union customer for all three of our family cars and if the call centre moves to India I will not renew the insurance this year. Instead I shall move to a company who employees UK based workers who can understand me and who I can hear
50. anonymous
I also have had an awful experience with Dell's call centre in India. It took them months to resolve a simple issue having:- taken me through the useless script even though I said I had done the FAQs on web site, then they erroneously reported the fault on their system, promising a call in 24 hours, 7-10 days later I called again, they promised to send a replacement item in 7 days, 2 weeks later I called back and they had errouneously deleted the fault report from the system, I was promised a call to resolve the next day (as they don't seem to have the knowledge and authority to action anything), I had to call back some 7-14 days later, they claimed to have resolved it but apologised for not doing so, a box with a SW license number but no SW arrived in the post a week or so later, I called screaming this time for sanity in their camp, they eventually arranged for the right SW to be sent which arrived 10 days later, then I also received a computer screen and invoice by mistake which I had to arrange collection of.... Hmmmm! I was appalled with the poor quality of service having previously worked for a Dell service provider in the UK. I actually have a next business day on site support agreement!
51. anonymous
Ive recently been dealing with BT via their india call centre(s). I was cut off three times and had to keep repeating everything over and over again, letter by letter. So frustrating. I am opposed to companies that send UK jobs abroad. I will actively avoid companies that do so. Im currently researching buying a new high spec. PC and had Dell as a likely supplier. After discovering that they have an india call centre i'll be taking my business to a UK company with UK staff. Well done Nationwide for choosing not to go offshore. Im a happy customer of yours.
52. Richard Gaines
I have two fundamental objections to overseas call centres.
1. It should be a requirement of any enterprise which operates in my country to offer employment to citizens of my country as part of being an acceptable institution within the community as a whole. Capitalism must always be limited by basic social obligations.
2. Having already had Indian Call centres inflicted on me I am painfully aware that the Subcontinental interpretation of the usage and pronounciation of the English language differs widely from the norm we expect in this country - this surely is going to put customers off. I emphasise that this is not a racial issue - someone of Indian origin working in a Birmingham call centre usually addresses one in a Birmingham accent - no problem!
I too am likely to transfer my insurance business away from Norwich Union to a provider who has British-based call centres.
53. anonymous
I have had some bad service from offshore call centres, but I have had some TERRIBLE service from British call centres. Certainly there are the good ones out there, but by and large, people working there generally do not seem to care at all about their customers, to the point of being blase and sometimes downright rude. British call centre staff need two things - a good kick up the backside, and a payrise (to encourage a better quality of person into the job - but this of course would only serve to make the prospect of outsourcing more attractive).
Companies in this country are still 20 years behind the rest of the world when it comes to customer service. And that's no exaggeration.
I'd rather a polite and enthusiastic Indian who only has half a clue than a rude, bored Briton who has a clue but doesn't care. I am against the transition of jobs away from our economy though. Catch 22.
54. Lee Mcdermott
I AM IN PROCESS OF CLOSING MY ABBEY NATIONAL SAVINGS ACCOUNT AND MOVING IT TO NATIONWIDE OR CO-OPERATIVE BANK. I FEEL I HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO MY 5 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER OTHERWISE WHAT WORK WILL BE AVAILABLE TO HER IN THIS COUNTRY WHEN SHE GROWS UP!
55. Victor Acker
When I write to my bank (HSBC in New York) and complain that my financial data is available 24/7 to anyone in India (with or without hacking skills) that could sell my data and other people's data because they need money, they (HSBC) scoff at my comment. Finally, there was a story about 3 years ago that HSBC was going to add 4000 jobs in New York State, I'm wondering if they New Delhi, India and definitely not Delhi, NY.
56. Colin Millin
Can I get a list of Companies who have moved call centres to India.I was lucky to visit New Delhi last year, and whilst in the area, took a road journey to Agra,about a five hour trip. I didn,t see many men of my age (56 years)on the journey, and was informed by a friend who visits the area regularly that a lot of the population are born by the side of the road, and die in the same place.
A politician recently said that British workers should get their act together and lower their wage demands. I gather the average wage for graduates in these call centres is £1200 per annum, most people I know wouldn't even be able to pay Council Tax on that sort of salary!! When I made my trip, I was advised to take out packs of paracetamol and take them to local street clinics as there are no painkillers available for the local population. A friend who visits New Delhi regularly has informed me that he has found a local chemist where he can purchase packs of 500 branded paracetamol for about £2.00. Is this really the way forward. I am not a do gooder, but I will stop dealing with anyone who continues to exploit these Countries. Finally, please don't think you are helping the majority of the population by supporting major charitys, these Countries are so corrupt that very little reaches the bulk of the people trying to survive.
Colin Millin
Devon
57. Jon Hartley
As soon as Norwich Union announced the move to India, I advised them I would not deal with them in the future, or support anything they may sponsor.As the announcement was made just before Christmas, I hope the people who made this decision soon suffer the same fate as they have imposed on so many families at such a festive time. The same applies to other companies moving call centres out of the UK. None of them deserve the support of the public.
58. Rod Heath
I don't care if moving offshore means more profit on the bottom line. I am a shareholder and I will sell my shares. It is a bad trend and needs to be stopped
59. anonymous
why scared of off shore its same as cost cutting by relocation of office building to a remote area .Most of the people(Even good quality) do not like to to leave city to have a small town life.
From company point of view its saving money and gaining investors confidence
which eventually gets more projects/customers and hence Jobs
Also Cost cutting saves many companies from fore closure and laying off everybody(instead of a small department) in a down market.
I will say its a samrt move Most of the US Giants have Benifited from Off shoring even moving there development offices to Cities like Banglore .And statastics shows that they are running profitabily and generating jobs though in different areas.
Like in case of lay offs too Best people always survives so here is no question of loosing quality and in capitalist market its all about profit and being the best ,which means if company is loosing money due to off shoring to Any TDH they need to review and associate themself with a better offshore business partner who can deliver qualiy in service.
----
60. anonymous
Can I find a list of UK organisations currently offshoring or planning to offshore? I would like to be able to review an updated list before making major purchases.
61. arthur edisbury
companies should be named and shamed in the National press as anti british.
62. Dave
Unfortunately I had the experience of dealing with my first outsourced tech support with Dell. I blame myself for not researching Dell problems before I purchased. I have a problem with outsourcing...it shows that American based companies have no loyalties to either customers nor to their own country. They wonder why people are beginning to look elsewhere for sources of income. Gone are the days that working for a company in the U.S. is even considered an honor, to me it's becomming a waste of time and just a means to the ends. Loyalty and quality are a thing of the past.
63. anonymous
Customers have left no choice. Companies have no major choice left than to outsource and cut down on labour costs because customers want cheaper prices,high interest rates on savings, interest free overdrafts and credit cards. How can an organisation especially financial institutions survive competition without cutting down on some overheads. It is time customers know that they can't have the cake and eat it too. The call centres service will improve gradually and slowly the service sector may disappear from developed nations. They are few hardrealities of finance. Cut down on overheads, maximise shareholder value is the success mantra for corporates
64. Cornelia O'Dwyer
Do you therefore think Globalisation has gone too far? In terms of all these comapnies off shoring to india just to cut costs. Well mainly anyway.
65. Nick Andrews
Three may be saving a little bit of money by having their call centre in india but are going to be losing money in the long term due to lost revenue from people like myself that will be leaving the service as soon as i can dump the contract.
On the fourth call to up my credit limit after my phone was barred to outgoing calls, video calls and text messages (despite only using a small part of my inclusive text allowance) i was told i couldn't pay an amount off my bill due to systems upgrade and my acount would have its limit lifted within 3 hours --- 3 days later and the fourth call i was told i could make a payment but not have credit limit raised, this was eventually i must state, their call centre are very useless in that they don't have a clue what they are doing.
66. Ken Blackledge
Yes Dell has relocated their support back to the midwestern part of the US. The reasons cited were poor communications and too general answers for specific problems.
67. anonymous
My HSBC account closes today. Indian call centres are a con. They cant understand what you say and I cant understand them. Which in turn means ridiculous phone costs
68. Debdip Gupta
The people who have feelings against offshoring, I smypathise about their comments. Most of the people just can not compete with the intellectual manpower of india. When they can not find any option starts giving big comments on the service where the firms situated in their place can not depend on their on hi-tech manpower.
I do not understand why the people are not accepting that we are better than any one. Well try to accept this fact life will be easy.
69. anonymous
The cynical comments about offshoring only reflect their prejudiced colonial mind about the third world. These comments emanate only from their false feeling of being a cut above, which is factually incorrect.
70. anonymous
I must have spent hours on the phone to Dell (India) since buying our computer last August. It would appear to me that the many agents I have spoken to have a list of set answers from which they chose what they believe to be the most appropriate for the occasion - or should that be "inappropriate" since their answers seem to be designed to frustrate rather than solve my problems? I have been put on hold, tranferred eventually to another agent, promised return calls (which rarely happen) and generally given the run-around. Despite having a next-day pick up service warranty, the call centre insisted on trying to solve the problem over the phone. Eventually we managed to find a UK phone number to call and the computer was taken away and repaired - a hardware problem, not software as India insisted. I am still waiting for a refund of £120 for a returned unused wireless router despite promises last October that the amount would be credited to my credit card account within five days. I could write a (very boring) book about my experiences with Dell. On the other hand, I phoned the Sony technical helpline recently, spoke to a very helpful Irish gentleman, and the problem was solved within half an hour of picking up the phone. My next computer will NOT be a Dell and I encourage my family and friends to think very carefully before before choosing their next computers.
71. Daniel Beck
I came across this site as I was trying to obtain a register of British companies that use overseas call centres, having just heard that the Norwich Union are to yet again to make British workers redundant in favour of cheaper overseas workers. I am a Norwich Union policy holder and I wish to show my anger at this worrying trend by boycotting NU and any other companies I am unwittingly supporting.
72. anonymous
Since HSBC has transferred its call centre service to India their service is not the same. I am so dissatisfied I will be transferring my current account to the Royal Bank of Scotland as they are not going to India.We tried to setup a joint account with HSBC (as I had banked with them fine for 7 years) and the operative in India was unable to take down name details correctly, DOB was incorrect and we found out on receipt of the cheque book that they had setup my local branch 500 miles away, instead of with my original branch. When I telephoned HSBC and was put through to an Indian operator they told me to visit this branch 500 miles away to sort this out. They were unable to do anything else. What a shambles, I had been quite a content customer, as their customer service was superb when it was up North in the UK, but now what an absolute disaster.
73. anonymous
I have just called Norwich Union to check my policy and I will most definitly NOT be renewing any car or house insurance with them after 4 years of business for the sole reason that they have outsourced their call centre and it takes twice as long to get a question answered.
74. Sibi Abraham
Offshoring benefits both the countries as the job done at a low cost ensures products and services been sold at a low cost. The organisation outsourcing improves its margin therefore stopping any loss happening which can shed jobs in thousands as against outsourcing just few hundred jobs. Eventually the world is being one family where everyone can move anywhere and there will be jobs for everyone.
75. anonymous
I agree Dell are appalling. I ordered 3 machines from them on the basis of believing all of the hype and advertising. Never again. The machines were delivered late. In fact it is a miracle they were delivered at all! When I got the machines two of them simply didn't work. Despite at least 60 calls to their so-called service department, and being given the most dreadful run around, I gave up. I ended up paying an engineer to get the 2 duff machines up and running and paid for 2 new HD's. Needless to say nothing at all from Dell.
76. anonymous
HSBC- another customer of 20 years closes account because of call centre in India.
I call into Local Branch of HSBC.
I have a meeting with a Financial Planning Manager- I leave with His Business card, with the Local Branch Number at the Bottom.....
When i call this Number, i get put thru to an Indian Call Centre who can neither understand my request, can put me thru to the person, or the Branch or have any basic skill or understanding of spoken English.
Pathetic and Rubbish HSBC !!!
Sort it or loose more market share !!!
77. anonymous
I detest Indian call centres and would like a list of all UK companies that are connected to India, so I can make it perfectly clear what they really mean to the Britsh public.
78. David Hollister
Does anyone know how to obtain a list of all UK companies using offshore call-centres? If so, please let me know. I prefer not to use these centres simply as I disagree with the principle of sending jobs abroad when we still have a million unemployed here, even if it results in slightly higher costs to me, the end consumer. Thanks.
79. was
Full marks to norwich union
the call did go to the centre in India at Delhi but the lady was efficent and knowledgeable and polite .... atleast not a smart alec i know all - listen to me- types ,
u would get here ...11 am ........
9-9-04
so i dunno what the rest of the guys are moaning about
or is it just habit that if u r accented the english remains good!!!
80. anonymous
The brouha against overseas call centres misses a vital point. It is the wide variation in the accent used by the Engligh speaking world.
81. David Freeman
This kind of outsourcing is an absolute Disgrace ! These companies should be ashamed of themselves. These greedy fatcats wont be able to spend these profits when theyre dead !
82. Paul Holroyd
My insurance is due for renewal with Norwich Union at the end of this month. They will not be getting my business anymore, since they prefer not to support our country only make a big fat profit from it. If anyone knows of a website naming other companies using these call centres let me know. paulyorks@aol.com
83. anonymous
Daniel,
Did you ever find a list?
that is what I am looking for at the moment, (after another unhelpful service from BT!!! ~ not the call centre persons fault though)
Thanks,
Karen.
84. anonymous
London Manager who believes in outsourcing. You may have saved your customer 2 million by outsourcing their call centre, what will happen when the customers have had enough of the poor customer service they are receiving and take their business elsewhere. How much wil your client have saved then. Outsourcing is short sighted and will bite the banks back where it hurts.
85. anonymous
Having worked for norwich union I can confirm that they have a corporate arrogance which is unsurpassed... to quote "we are so big now that we cant fail"... after their last merger... where does that fit with customer service? If you would like any more info on a corporate body gone bad email me.
86. anonymous
I'm surprised at all these comments really. The reason these jobs are sent overseas is not just because the labour is cheap but also because the people are educated, can speak grammatically correct english & can use their brains effectively even in a tough situation. I work in such a call centre for big names & some of the customers who call in are atrocious, their language, their reasoning...I could go on. But the fact remains that people overseas specially in India are essentially polite by nature when talking to their customers (something I do not find in the US & UK) so why not respect that, treat them like people too & then go ahead from there & see how much better the situation seems. And if not, what the heck, at least I would've tried. So long.
87. Neil Brown
Changing bank account (from Lloyds) but can't change train company. Twenty five minutes to buy a train ticket! - quicker to queue up! Line quality to India isn't good, plus delay in speech, plus neither of us speaking BBC English makes communication difficult, plus these people in Indian call centres are obviously being exploited. It's not good enough.
88. they_like_me,they_like_me_not
Hello everyone
I'm a staff at one of HSBC's offshore call centres in Malaysia. I find that language is not the barrier between us but rather the local accent and speed of conversing in English. However the quality of service provided has not decreased as I have many UK customers who are pleased with our service especially our determination to provide excellent customer service. Finally, would just like to say that I enjoy working n dealing with people from UK as I find that they are mostly warm and friendly people from all walks of life.
89. Steve Forster
Offshore call centres are a waste of time. If I determine that if any of my providers are outsourcing abroad, then I will move to one that keeps jobs in the UK. We have enough qualified employees looking for work hard as it is with the governments keen approach to handing britain and its jobs to economic migrants, without uk based companies doing it as well.
90. Alan Jones
After hearing news of Lloyds TSB moving to India, I have decided to close my accounts which I have had with them for many years! And I hope thousands of other customers wll do the same. These already filthy rich companys are just looking to line their pockets even further by paying low pay and care nothing for British workforce & customers who have made them rich already! What we need is a list of the companies staying loyal to their country & customers!!
91. anonymous
I strongly object to the loss of a huge amount of call centre jobs in Britain to India. Customer Service should be improved not made worse by sending jobs abroad. The only people who are winning out are the Chief Executives, Managers and main shareholders in companies such as Norwich Union etc. I am looking for another insurance company based in UK. So if there is a list out there I would be glad to receive it. We need to protect our jobs in this country first
92. Mayur
I myself have worked for HSBC's Global Service Center in India. I get surprised when people are apprehensive about their data. HSBC its group and subsidiaries take utmost care of their customer’s data. HSBC has very strict policies and all its employees adhere to HSBC'S core standards of behavior and its policies, irrespective of the geographic location. HSBC is one big family and its employees take pride in their work. HSBC is one of the best banks in the world today.
93. anonymous
We are having tremendous troubles with our Dell Laptops which are putting our company at risk. We thought that if we purchased 'Next Business Day on site' atleast if there were problems they could be quickly resolved. However this is not the case.
Can anyone supply me with the name and email address of the Dell VP of Customer Services in Europe, who I can contact directly ?
94. Mr Khan
i have been calling my phone service provider 3 and all i get is someone picking up the phone in INDIA. i have been on the phone for the last 5 days 3-4 hourse per day just to solve my billing enquiry and no one their can help me ....so the best think i am doing know is to boycott any company which has its call centre in India coz they are bloody useless
95. anonymous
... much ado about nothing... or is it just an evolved form of neo-racism... fact is, world is getting smaller - competition is getting more and that's the direction the world is moving towards - and for those who cant stomach it, maybe they should move towards communism/socialism or some other protectionist regime
96. Nigel
I received an evening call recently offering to save me money on my telephone bill. In order to save time, I interrupted his sales talk and asked where he was calling from. He neatly replied that he worked for an international call centre based in London. I again asked him where he was calling from. 'Where in the world are you physically sitting?'. He replied that he was based in a call centre in Bangalore. I politely informed him that the conversation was now over and that he would not be getting my business as I would not tolerate UK companies outsourcing UK jobs. This is the most effective way to let the companies know your displeasure.
97. steven jack edwards
if this is the costumer that had the problems and also used to work for dell in the uk, then this is for you. if not, then i would like someone to help me out. i have a system from dell purchased it 2002 and it is now 2004, the system is now out of warranty but i have complained many times about the system, and have been blown off time and time again. i hope there is someone out there who can help me out or someone out there who has had the same or similar problems with dell and would like to try to get a class action law suit against them. please email me at sj3162edwards@aol.com... i do not have all of the money in the world, mainly because of dell taking most of my money and the rest for my kids, so i would like to find someone that might have a more of a chance to help me out and quite possibly help each other out. thankyou very much. a very upset dell costumer.
98. jeffro
if anyone is interested, you can find lists of uk companies using offshore call centres at www.antioffshore.co.uk
99. anonymous
Anyone looking for a list check out www.antioffshore.co.uk
100. Pete Jone
Had the same problems with Dell. What a joke. Never will we purchase dell products again
101. an Indian
I agree that sometimes the quality of service (accent/comprehension..) cud be bad. But, this is Globalization and was originally started by the western world (read: US, UK..)
Companies like UniLever, Coke....have wiped out completely the local companies. SO, I guess now its the turn of Indian people to fight back? ain't it mate?
102. anonymous
Hello
After 20 years a Midland Bank, and now HSBC, customer and one dreadful experience with their Indian callcenter in which the agent did not understand what I was saying, I am moving my account elsewhere.
I have had this experience with a number of companies - the worst was trying to explain my address to the Norwich Union callcenter - so one by one I am transferring all my business away from companies which do this.
103. Bob Small
The question of skill ranks down the list of other advantages when a company decides to offshore it's business, the main aim is profit and always will be, if I'm a customer of that company I don't want they're profit to result from exploiting labour conditions in a developing countries. I am happy to pay the same or a little extra to preserve the right for people in my country to enjoy secure employment, I don't see the point in a short term financial gain in whatever service I receive going towards increased taxation to cover unemployment benefit for those effected by "the benefits of offshoring". If profit of a company is made in one country, why should those who live/work in that country, and purchase that companies services contribute towards increasing the unemployment of that country?
104. mark
DATA PROTECTION RISK
none of these offshore comapnies are under the durasticion of Data protection, recent reports are showing fraud may be rife, I will not and refuse to give my credit card details to a firm who will let them loose in a insecure non regulated country where the workers are paid little better than slaves, the temptation to steal a years wages from one credit card must be overwhelming, my message is clear, either Employ british workers to sell British service or sell your Goods in India as well, the first company to advertise using uk only call centres will get all my custom, even if it costs double !
105. anonymous
I certainly will, as far as possible, boycot companies with overseas call centres - most recently the RAC. However, how do I find out which companies DO have overseas call centres? Is there a list? The RAC sent me a long letter explaining how much this move would improve customer services!!!! I'm not sticking around to find out - as far as I'm concerned, they are off my christmas card list.
106. anonymous
I certainly will, as far as possible, boycot companies with overseas call centres - most recently the RAC. However, how do I find out which companies DO have overseas call centres? Is there a list? The RAC sent me a long letter explaining how much this move would improve customer services!!!! I'm not sticking around to find out - as far as I'm concerned, they are off my christmas card list.
107. Dino Smith
At the ends of all the back lash and abuses Indian call centre executives do their best to solve customer queries with the limited respources they have,at the end of the day they work hard and service levels still remain high.